142: Weight Loss Doesn’t Make You Happy with Heidi Bollard and Natalie Dulaney

Introduction 

You're listening to Biceps after Babies radio episode number 142.

Hello and welcome to Biceps after Babies radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PRs. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife, and mom of four.  Each week, my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise mindset, personal development, and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel, and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you, my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in, now let’s jump into today’s episode.

 

Amber B  0:45  

Hey, hey, hey,  welcome back to the episode of biceps after babies radio, I'm your host Amber Brueseke. And in the house today, we have two of my very favorite people, Heidi and Natalie better known as Butter Your Macros. So we talked a little bit about our connection and how we know each other in the podcast. So I'm gonna leave that for when we actually dive into the episode, but safe to say Heidi and Natalie have just become really good friends of mine. And it's been really a fun friendship to develop, we're in the same space. So sometimes people are surprised that, you know, we really people could look at us and say, Hey, you guys are essentially like direct competitors to each other. But one of the things that I love most about our relationship is that I mean, I guess I can't speak for them. But I don't really see us as competitors like we are supporting each other, I want them to succeed, they are pretty sure that they want me to succeed. And it's been really fun to be able to go through life with people who get it in terms of being in the same space in the online space, as well as having you know real-life workout buddies that are just fun to sit and chat and hang out with. 

 

Amber B  2:01 

So we go to CrossFit together, like five days a week. And we are there most days together. We kind of get into the dynamics a little bit in the podcast episode. But as you know, I see them multiple times a week. And we always have really great conversations, really unfiltered. What do we want to talk about today? What did we say online? What are we wanting to like, you know, kind of figure out in terms of clients and the world and Instagram and how much we hate the platform at this moment and all of those things. And for a long time, Natalie has been saying, we just need to like hit record and just talk and just talk about all the things that we talked about at the gym. So that's what we did today: we sat down, we hit record. And we just talked and we talked about everything from CrossFit and the gym. We talked about some of the recent struggles that both Heidi and Natalie have had in terms of their aesthetics and the goals that they have set for themselves. We talk about what we think about everything from intermittent fasting to diet culture to everything, we just talk about all the things that we usually talk about at the gym, and just hit record so that you guys can hear them. 

Amber B  3:23 

Now the title of this podcast, I actually had it titled something different as we went into the episode, and at the very end of the episode, you're gonna hear Natalie, just like have this lightbulb moment where she just kind of wraps everything up so succinctly. And when she said it, I was like that's it. That's the title of the podcast episode. So the title of this episode is weight loss doesn't make you happy. And lots, without further ado, jump into the interview with Natalie Dulaney and Heidi Bollard. 

 

Amber B  3:59 

Well, I am excited to welcome you back to the podcast. There are not very many people that I've had on the podcast more than once and I'm welcoming back to the podcast Heidi and Natalie from Butter Your Macros. 

 

Amber B  4:13 

Hey guys. 

 

Natalie and Heidi  4:14 

Hi. It feels like a long time since we talked to you. 

 

Amber B  4:18 

This morning was a long time ago. 

 

Heidi 4:21 

A couple of hours we miss you. 

 

Amber B  4:22 

Yeah. So this is super fun for me. It's super fun for us. Heidi and Natalie have been friends, colleagues, clients, we're gonna go over the whole relationship, but they were some of the first people on the podcast. I remember, you know, when I start a podcast, you're like, Who am I gonna ask who's gonna say yes to my podcast? Nobody knows me right now. I'm like, a brand new podcast. And Heidi and Natalie were one of the first people that I had on the podcast. So I'm excited to have you guys back. 

 

Natalie  4:51 

Well, I looked at I was like, I think we were like episode seven or eight and I'm like, holy crap, and she surpassed 100 like last year. 

 

Amber B  4:56

Oh yeah. This is gonna be like 150 something. So we're like we're moving and shaking along. So it's been a long time. And we've talked about this a couple of times, a couple of times we've been in the gym, and Natalie's like we need to record a podcast because we just like to sit and chat in the gym about all sorts of things. And we just need to hit record. And that's what we're doing today. 

Heidi 5:16

After we put in a super effective workout, of course. 

 

Amber B  4:56

Oh, yeah. It's always about the super-effective workout. Yes, that's exactly it. Okay, so for somebody who maybe is not familiar with me, and you guys and our relationship and your page, will you kind of fill people in. Someone gives us the run-through of like, how did you and I and us begin? How did you guys begin because that started way before I even like, become friends with you? How did it begin? Who's gonna do that background story? 

 

Natalie  5:48  

Well, it was kind of hilarious about this question that you're asking is that you actually were in our lives at the time that it started, right? Because Heidi started counting macros with you, right? Yeah, we were already neighbors, we had been living this blissful life, you know, six road roles at a time enjoying things. And I just finished nursing, my fifth baby, and Heidi had been working out for over a year consistently. And she's like, I guess I need to figure out this nutrition thing. And at that time, we were actually cooking two times a week because good mothers cook for their families. Right? So we thought that we would cook two times a week and we would split it. Because we love-hate he has as a part. So we're neighbors. And when she started counting macros, I've never heard of it before, I was just ready to dive back into My Fitness Pal, you know, at 1250 calories, two and a half pounds a week because you have to select what option do you like? And I was like, Can you eat this on your thing? And she's like, I'll figure it out. And I'm like, No, I don't want to cook something. If you're not going to eat it, I'll just do whatever this thing is you're doing. Right? So, therefore, that's when our macro counting journey began. So apparently, you were still you were actually already there.

 

Amber B  6:56  

I don't think I even didn't. I don't think I ever knew that that was like going on simultaneously, that I was like coaching Heidi, while you guys were actually like becoming friends for the first time. I don't think I ever put those timetables together.

 

Natalie and Heidi  7:07  

We've been friends before. But we had just had it really, we were friends for a year like we had a history together beforehand, because our husbands worked for the same company. And I grew up with her husband. So I mean, my legacy with her husband, like, dates back a couple of decades, right? So I reached out to you for numbers, you gave me my first set of numbers. And then she and I started counting together. So technically, you've been since the beginning of Butter Your Macros. You just didn't know.

 

Amber B  7:31  

I just didn't know it. I actually remember. I remember when I didn't know which one of you guys emailed me I think it was, I think it was Heidi, I think you emailed me and you're like, hey, like, just so you know, like, we're starting this new page. And like she sent it to me and I was like, Oh, this is so cool. Like, they're starting this page. And I went and followed. And like, you know, now it's so fun to look back and see how far you know, both you guys and I have come and that we all have these pages and are able to serve lots and lots of women. So I think it's super fun. So at the time, just in case, nobody knew. Heidi and Natalie live in Orange County, and I was in North Carolina at the time. And then we moved back to Orange County four years ago. And that was one of the things I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be living near Heidi and Natalie. And we're gonna actually be real-life friends instead of just Instagram friends. 

 

Natalie  8:23  

And we met and we went and ate dinner one night, and it was super fun. And then a couple more times, and then there's Amber living in the city next to us. So it's not like she's even far. She will basically be neighbors and cities, which is why we love neighbors, apparently. And then it took her a couple of years for us to separate a community CrossFit then I'll let you know that story.

 

Amber B  8:41  

Yeah, Heidi and Natalie, so when I moved to Orange County, I was powerlifting. I'd been powerlifting for a while. And we built a gym in our backyard. So, my husband, were powerlifting outside. And we, you know, had a competition like I was into powerlifting. And Heidi and Natalie had gone to CrossFit. And they were like, it's so fun. We love it. Like you really should do it. And I really put it off because when I told you this part of me knew that once I did it, I was gonna love it. And it was going to require me to like, now join CrossFit and like go to cross and like do something different, right? I knew it was gonna require me to do something different. So I kind of push it off as long as possible. I'm like, No, no, no, no, I'm not gonna do it until I'm ready to actually change what I'm doing. And I got to the point with my programming that I was just bored and I was talking to Heidi about this. I had hit a plateau with my lifts and I just wasn't enjoying it like I was enjoying it previously, and I was like, Okay, I'm ready guys. Tell me what to do. Where do I go? How do I sign up? How do I go try a class and that was like three years ago,

 

Heidi  9:46  

but it was funny because along with the way Amber was teaching group fitness classes, got to see her in action, and then she also taught high for a little bit so her hype in his classes. So I feel like we've had, like, you know, we've been together for a couple of years. And then yeah, come you come in across the definitely cemented, like, the real deal like we do every day for

 

Amber B  10:11  

Five days a week, every morning, Monday through Friday, we were cross-fitting together. So one of the questions we asked both of our accounts, what questions you guys had for us that you wanted to talk about and one of the questions was specifically about you guys have like you, both Heidi Natalie, you guys look like you're always together. Like, you look like 24 seven, you guys are always together. That's what it looks like on social media. So people want to know what the reality is. And do you ever need a break from each other? Does that happen for you guys?

 

Heidi  10:40  

So we are always to go. We really, really aren't. We are but we aren't like it's like, um, I mean, think about all. I mean, you have two days off, you have two days off a week, weekdays off, and then you have a weekend. And we see each other for like, a week, or every hour day.

 

Natalie 11:00 

The only day we might not see each other is Saturday. But for the most part, we see each other Monday through Friday, and then Sunday's for sure. And then we do have obviously the little windows where we're at the gym together and we'll go grocery shopping. Yeah, you know,

 

Heidi  10:40  

Like, she'll take her kids somewhere. And she's running driving past my house, and I'll come back and out my bare feet and hop in her car. And then we're like a tick-tick ticket to the hallway there.

 

Natalie 11:22 

And then we text like all day long and especially share memes all day long. So I feel like we're always together. But if you don't feel like we're always 

 

Heidi  11:29

it's never enough. I just like you more than you like me. 

 

Natalie  11:33  

And do we ever need a break from each other? No, I don't think people like that answer at all. But like, we don't bug each other. I think it really comes down to fighting that we're basically like the same person likes to halves like one person. 

 

Heidi  11:44  

So it's kind of just like, the only time that's a problem is when we're both worried about the same thing. Other than that, it's like, I'm worried she's calling me down vice versa. But yeah, we're very simpatico. 

 

Amber B  11:58  

Yeah. And you said your husband's like that. I remember you like talking about this in your stories. 

 

Natalie  12:02  

Oh, my gosh they love it. 

 

Amber B  12:03  

Yeah.

 

Natalie  12:05  

Less and less time with my wife because of their best friend down the street. I mean, have you ever had this relationship with someone I mean, it's like a friendship where like, you know, just hearing their voice or like being able to talk out a problem with them. It kind of lifts your spirits. You know, it's just, that's me, sisters, friends. We mean, we know these kinds of relationships. And we're just like, super grateful to have it. 

 

Amber B  12:32  

Yeah. So let's talk about this relationship in terms of CrossFit, and how that dynamic has recently shifted. So I started CrossFit, you I started partially like three and a half years ago. And I started CrossFit almost three years ago. And so we were going to classes and we were doing classes, all the same. And then like, did you start bodybuilding before quarantine? How was it like? 

 

Natalie  12:56  

When the gym shut down, or COVID hit, that's when we had a group retreat into the garage. 

 

Amber B  13:00  

Yeah. And so then they started doing some bodybuilding stuff, and have been doing that for over a year now. Right, like a little over a year. And so I was CrossFitting alone. super sad. Well, I'm not alone, because they were still there. They're still in the gym just over a quarter. So I can say hi, we could talk and chat. But I was CrossFitting alone. And then recently, my husband joined. And so how has that changed the dynamic?

 

Heidi  13:28  

Well, we felt like our trio had become broken out by your new boyfriend.

 

Amber B  13:36  

I actually told my husband that before he came, I was like, just let you know, I'm really concerned about this. Like, we have a really good thing going. I like my friends. 

 

Heidi  13:45  

He brought a boyfriend too. So I'm like, oh, maybe it'll be fine. He doesn't need our friend. But apparently, 

 

Amber B  13:51  

when apparently he wants to be with me. So I told him that I was like, I am worried about this. Like I have my friends like this is my like, friend time like I want to see my friends. I want to hang out with my friends. And I know you want to hang out with me, but I want to see my friends as well. So that has shifted the dynamic a little bit. 

 

Natalie 14:08  

And then we're trying to incorporate TJ but he doesn't think we're as funny as we think we are. Kind of we're just kind of wearing him down a little bit

Amber B  14:16 

TJ thinks anybody's funny at 5:30 in the morning.

 

Natalie 14:08

Okay, that's okay. That's fair. Did you bake for him or something? Oh, bribery cookies.

 

Amber B  14:26  

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's a good idea. Yeah, 

 

Natalie  14:29  

It's been interesting. I'm like, I definitely feel like you do seem split when you're in there. Yeah. But then when he's not there, it's like, oh, Amber 

 

Amber B  14:37  

I am back to normal. It's back to normal. Yeah. 

 

Heidi  14:42  

He mixed a friend-friend group. I was like, You can't be as competitive when he's there. 

 

Amber B  14:47  

I can't. Yeah, that's true. That is very true.

 

Natalie  14:52  

So we'll mark that when TJ's there. The white Amber suffers on the whiteboard alone.

 

Amber B  14:58  

Although he yeah, he makes fun of me like one time I remember specifically we were doing a WOD. And I was moving my equipment over to the side near the gym door and he was like, What are you doing? I'm like, Duh, there's a run. Like, why the heck would I run across the gym to then go on the run? No, I want to be first. I want to get as close to the door as possible to all of my stuff there, go for the run, and come back and be right there with my equipment. I'm no dummy. And he looked at me like I had 12 eyes. But I've even thought of that, like, and that is the difference between my husband and I is like, I'm like, I'm really, I'm competitive, and he just doesn't care. But the other problem is, he has OR early in the morning. And so he has to go to like the 5:30 class. And I've always done 6:30 like, that's always been our time that we've gone. And so now it's like, I go 5:30 and you guys go 6:30 and we like crosses as classes are changed. 

 

Natalie  15:55  

To work out a custody agreement with him. Your Amber time? I need your Amber time. 

 

Amber B  16:04  

I feel so split. I'm like a child and having to choose between my parents. Oh, that's so funny. All right. Okay, on to some other questions. So, one question for you in terms of macro counting, this is something that I get asked a lot is how often do you track macros? Or even more like, what does that look like over the last you know, five, six, I don't know how many years? What does it look like for you? What does that transition look like? How is it different today than it maybe was five years ago?

 

Heidi  16:33  

Oh, sure. I'll go first. So, five years ago, I was tracking everything all the time. Yeah, absolutely. I think this time, five years ago when I was cutting, it was my first cut. I think I lost four pounds, but I lost four inches around my waist. So if I hadn't, that was one of the biggest lessons I learned right out of the gates. We say to our clients if you do as well, obviously, you've got to take your measurements, and not just trust the scale. So yeah,  it was an exciting time for me to have just come to macros, figuring it out, I definitely had the lens of like, Wow, I can't believe this even works. Like I can't believe that I can fit. I can choose my food. You know, before it was always I'm kind of I can be a little picky sometimes. So following meal plans, I was always like, Oh, that's gross. I don't want to eat that. So then what do I do, just never learning anything about nutrition. So, um, so that was great. 

 

Heidi  17:36  

I really, obviously really clicked once Natalie jumped on board, then we really were able to, she helped me become even more flexible with it when we were adventuring into eating out and making recipes and all kinds of things. So,  but yeah, I was definitely very dialed in tracking everything most of the time. Flash forward present day, like I just finished her surplusing for about the last seven or eight months. I'm not rushing into a cut. So those are Yeah, that so I was served while he was still surplusing. It was a lot of estimating. I was definitely logging here and there. When I'm cutting I am all in. Like I am super accurate and all of that. But really overall, our my philosophy when I'm just maintenance is like, track, you know, here and there track a few times a week to make sure that you're staying on top of your game, right and making if there's one thing I'm committed to it's watching my data over the time over time, I don't feel the need to be 24 seven with My Fitness Pal. So I'm also flexible with your expectations, right? So does that make sense? 

 

Amber B  18:53  

Yes, it's good. 

 

Heidi  18:54  

Okay, good.

 

Natalie  18:55  

I think you know when we've had this conversation before, Amber, it's just it's tracking as a tool, right? And it's like, for the first probably two and a half years, I tracked every single day religiously. In fact, I had like a streak of over 1000 at one point and then what happened I went to Texas or something, and then it like, zeroed out and then, of course, I was like super annoyed by it because I was super needy, you know that I love me like, I love me a gold star for everything. So after that I actually was like, You know what, maybe I don't need to be so tied to it right? So I tracked for 1000 days. So that accumulated like over, you know, almost three years worth of tracking and tracking daily, you know, and it was fun for me, it was laborious, it didn't bug me at all. It was just like, you do it because you like your results, right? And you liked them and you to maintain things. And so once that kind of once that 1000 disappeared that 1000 day tracking disappeared. I was like, you know, maybe it's time to just kind of relax a little bit and trust myself. I think that when you practice tracking, you've actually used it as a tool to teach yourself versus somebody that you hate and you despise it and you have to grind through it. You have to do it and like I always say my pain like I hate tracking so much. It's like oh gosh, why do I really like it?

 

Amber B  20:00  

Okay, so wait, there's a question: it says, someone submitted a question that says what do you do about the mindset of being tired or tracking? It gets old? So what would you say to that?

 

Natalie  20:10  

I think you get tired of talking if you're not getting results from it. 

 

Amber B  20:13  

Yeah, that's true.

 

Natalie  20:13  

If you're getting results from it. It's really joyful. Because you're like, this is what I'm doing, this is what I'm getting. It's worth it. Like anything. It's like, we don't want to do anything for nothing. Most of us enjoy reaping our benefits, right? If we're doing things. So I think that if you don't like tracking because you're not liking your results. And it might be more like you're not liking the habits that you're creating or not creating because of it because to you, it's tedious because you're not getting something out of it, right. But it's just like if you enjoy it and yield results, then it's enjoyable. It's just like, it's like budgeting, right? Like, I hate budgeting every little thing. It's like really, but something goes really, really love knowing at the end of the day, how much they've got. And I like it, I enjoy it. And so I think after you teach yourself it's really easy to learn how to log in the rearview, you can estimate things really well and you have a great idea of what something's worth. And so you don't have to be so religious about it like that. So that's what I do somewhere to Heidi just, I'm in maintenance, I'm logging every now against the log all the way up till dinner, I've got about 1000 calories left, I know how to like go from there. Definitely not like every single day from beginning to end maintenance just is not necessary, right? You check your data, do what you need, to what kind of adjustments you need to make. And then you can dive back into tracking wherever everything's great. And you just keep on keeping on. But it's a tool but in a deficit. Yes, I'm laser-like, every single gram gets logged because that's what you do it enough that because you're tracking like 99% of the day, even if that happens to get your results.

 

Heidi  20:56  

Well, and I love that such a great question even the way it's phrased. Because there's a lot you can learn from the way you ask questions, right? Like, how do you deal with, like, with the suckiness of tracking? I can't remember how she said the question, but it's like tracking doesn't have inherent suckiness. The way you think about it applies suckiness on top of it. Right? So if tracking is neutral, and it's just the way you're thinking about it, what can we spin that around? Like Natalie was saying, is that the lack of results? And if you're in maintenance, for example, did you know that the lack of results is actually progress? Right? Like maintaining is progressing? So it just kind of depends on your thoughts. Like, what are you making it mean? What is tracking? What are you making tracking mean? is it all about what you can't have? Can you not stand it when things are when you can't have all the things that you want? Or what is it that bothers you about it specifically? And that's the issue, like just saying how can I feel bad but better about the stupidness of tracking? That's not a very high-quality question. You're asking me how can I feel better about something that sucks? Suck it all? That's the question. 

 

Amber B  22:51  

So good. So recently, in a coaching call, I had someone we were talking about maintenance. And one of you guys, you guys are gonna like this. So one of the things that she was talking about is that she really had never spent a ton of time on maintenance. And one of the things that I wanted to pull out of what Heidi was saying that I really want to highlight is that in both of you guys, they said when you're cutting, you're laser-focused. But the piece that is the context that is missing there, for people who are listening is that when you are cutting, it is a very, very, very, very small percentage of the time. So you can be laser-focused, you can't be laser-focused for three years of cutting, right, that doesn't work. And so what we were saying on the coaching call, she was saying, you know, I've never really done maintenance, and she's like, but I follow, I hear everything that you say, and I hear you saying that @butteryourmacro says and she listed the other couple people have like how amazing maintenance is and it's made me like, want to spend more time in maintenance. And I was like Hallelujah, we're like doing our job out there on social media, or like, teaching people that most of your life should be spent on maintenance. And I think that really highlights. You guys talk about being laser-focused on your cuts. But you can do that because before you cut Natalie, how long did you spend on maintenance? Like years?

 

Natalie  24:04  

And it's like, you're not gonna, like you mentioned like, you can't cut for three years. And it's like, well, yeah, you can't track for three years and get anything out of it. Because you can't cut for three years to get anything out. Right? You know, Wonder tracking would suck. Yielding you any results, like if you keep watering your lawn and it stays dead. It's like how motivated are you to water your lawn?

 

Heidi  24:21  

Well, and similarly if all of the habits that you need to build and maintain in order to get the results that you want, if all of that sucks, and you're expecting some like results at the end of the yellow brick road to transforming your mindset into feeling good all the time. That's not how it works all, just like doing repetitions builds muscle. Doing practicing positive thoughts builds a positive mindset. But the trick is you have to really believe it. You have to really be honest with yourself. It can't be this: pretend like you can't pretend away or ignore your feelings. You've got to acknowledge them. Accept them, rally, you know, live to fight another day, all of those things.

 

Amber B  25:03  

Yeah. So in this realm of maintenance, somebody asked, How can I stay calm during maintenance? How can I stay calm as I move to maintenance? Sorry, I think this idea of maintenance is challenging, like how can I stop my brain from being all the what-ifs and the worries and stuff that come along with maintenance? If we're supposed to spend so much time on maintenance, how do we be calm during it? 

 

Heidi  25:27  

Well, I think it's tricky. I mean, I think you know, we've had this conversation a million times herewith like, maintenance is harder for anybody than being in a deficit. Everyone's great at depriving themselves of cutting calories, which is really ironic because it's hard. Right? But it's like maintenance is terrible. People freak out about it, people. I mean, first of all, it's unknown territory. Most of us have never, ever heard of mean as even before, macro counting, right. And it's trustful in a lot of ways because it goes against everything you've ever believed in, right? Eat more, and you won't gain weight. Plateau, right? 

 

Amber B  25:58  

Like the opposite of whatever she tells you.

 

Heidi  26:00  

And so that, first of all, you're like, Okay, so these people on the internet are telling me this, like, do I really, really believe it, even though I see all the science that backs it up. And I know that I've actually never been able to, you know, keep my weight off. And you know, by just keeping eating low or doing whatever you want. So it's like, there's that first estimate. But really, what it comes down to is maintenance is hard because you're not getting the scale pangs of validation that you get for being an adult. And that's why women are addicted to cutting is because they look to the scale for validation. And in maintenance, you don't get pings. I mentioned earlier that like, no, not gaining is progress and maintenance. People don't see that as, obviously, they want to step on a scale and always see it ticking down to know that they're doing something for themselves.

 

Natalie  26:41  

Totally sidebar, I just want to give credit to that quote, that was one of our coaches, Jordan said that the other day, and I'm not as super good. So I file it away. Maintenance is progressing, Jordan. 

 

Heidi  26:53  

Anyway, so on that when Natalie uses the phrase like the scale gives you pings,  that's a very real thing. Seeing something like that is a reward for our brain, it floods our brain with a good feeling chemical, the dopamine hit, right? Like you can actually get, you really can get addicted to that. So realizing that that's an artificial ping that works because you believe in it. So how can you replace the artificial outer ping of a scale? Or someone else's compliment or whatever and how can you do that for yourself? How can you count like, you know, her comment about staying calm, or another one we hear is like, balance and want to feel balanced or whatever? But if you think about it, if you're struggling to maintain your balance, that means there's some tearing, right, like you're trying to find stability, so you have to keep correcting for the instability, right? So it's not going to be just a one-and-done thing. Like, I've lost weight, I feel good about myself forever. I'm in maintenance, I have no more anxiety about food, or gaining weight or anything. It's like, it just doesn't work like that. It's a constant. Like people ask if we're sick of each other? How's your relationship with yourself? Like, do you like being with yourself? If this was this, you're the person you're going to be? This is the body like your body, your body can never change, right? You can never improve as a person. How do you feel about yourself? Like right now as is? And if it's not good enough, then why do you think losing five pounds is going to change any of that? It's still the conditions that you're talking about.

 

Natalie  28:33

What is it great exercises that we like to use with our girls because maintenance is very hard? I mean, for I would say the majority of people, they don't enjoy maintenance until they really have lived in it and like have sat in their discomfort a little bit, and kind of removed the elements of the scale things. But we say like so if you had met all your goals, like let's just say today with Amber, you are exactly who you want it to be you're, you know, heading to the games in Madison, you know, you had 15, unbroken, like, bring muscle ups on everything you could ever want and physique, wise and everything. What would you do with the rest of your life? That is what you go into in maintenance, Like, write that all down? Who would you be without a weight loss goal, right? Who would you be without this aesthetic goal that you keep chasing? That is what you do in maintenance and that's what you spend all your time doing. And it's like, you have less energy for mindset work in a deficit. So it's also what you go and you do in maintenance. And I think that's also the problem. A lot of women don't think they have mindset issues. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna be happy. I have nothing to work on.

 

Heidi  29:29 

Well, I can't tell you how many women have told us that they feel like they can't move on to another goal or do anything else or feel good about themselves until that happens? Right. It's like, who would you be without your weight loss goal? What would be important to you what matters outside of I mean that like, I don't know, there's a guarantee you there's women, pre-2015. There's, there's me included, that have never asked themselves those questions. 

 

Natalie  29:57  

One, frankly, I think they're terrified to find out who they are. Without a weight loss goal, I think most people like that goal because it's like, oh, this is the one that I'm always chasing. This is my number one goal. I mean, think about how many people have made that their goal every New Year's, like, Did you want a new one, but this one I'm always chasing. So it's like, even if I never see that I'll never have to feel like I need a new one or anything like that. It's like, well, what happens if you meet it? 

 

Heidi  30:19  

But if you totally but if you feel deficient and unworthy because of your weight? Why would you feel motivated to chase any goals that might highlight more deficiencies that you have? Right? If that's what chasing goals mean to you, it's all about compensating for what you feel you lack. 

 

Natalie  30:35  

So I would actually like to ask you about Amber. Because as long as I've known you, you've never had a week, ever. But I've never heard you once people really want to be like 132.6. So let's talk about that. Like, how have you gotten to a place where your maintenance doesn't scare you?

 

Amber B  30:52  

I think that's a really good question. Um, I mean, I think for me, it's always been performance, like that has always been and I think and I credit that to my mom. That's what I saw her focus on is her running times and her performance in the gym and things like that. You know, I haven't ever had a weight goal. However, I have had an aesthetic goal, right. And, in my mind, those weren't linked as closely as they are sometimes in some people's minds. And so I wanted to get a six-pack and I knew I needed to get leaner to get a six-pack, but it's not like I had a number that was like when I hit this number, then that will be it. It's just like when the six-pack showed up. So I've definitely been, I mean, my leanest, I was about 10 pounds leaner than I am now, I can't even imagine being 10 pounds leaner than I am now because I’ve built so much more muscle and so I'm similar in body fat percentage as I was back then a little bit higher, but at a higher weight. And I think that's really important for people to hear that like I would never want to go back to 126 pounds like that

 

Heidi  32:01  

How is your life different with a six-pack versus now? Can you tell us?

 

Amber B  32:05  

Like there's like literally zero, like literally zero. 

 

Heidi  32:10  

So you walk around with the sun shining and 

 

Amber B  32:12  

I know it's so weird. You know what the other thing that I did when I got a six-pack, okay, so for anybody who doesn't know, like when I wanted to get a six-pack it really for me it was really just like another goal. It was like I've never done that before like it would be fun to do it. When I got the six-pack. I remember thinking this is so dumb. I don't even wear bikinis. Like, nobody can even freakin' see my six-pack like, the only people ever see my six-pack is like when I show it on Instagram. I'm like, this is so dumb.

 

Natalie  32:42  

Hey, how am I even when you actually see games, athletes, and clothes are like Oh, where did it all go?

 

Heidi  32:49  

I was laughing so hard at that picture that we took with Matt Frazier, the man in the world for like six years or something. If you look at that picture with clothes on, you can't tell if the fittest person in the world is him.

 

Natalie  33:02  

Matt Frazier, look like you'd like hey, look, I took a picture with Matt Frazier. And you never know how he's, you'd be like, who's Matt Frazier? 

 

Heidi  33:08  

Must be the taller guy. Right? 

 

Amber B  33:10  

Well, he was more athletic. The taller guy does. Yeah. So I mean, I think I do think and I think that's important for women to hear. I think it's important for him to hear that, like, Yes, I set a goal to get a six-pack. Yes, that was an aesthetic goal, I achieved it. But for me, what was cool about achieving was just, it was like the process to achieve it is like what I had to do in order to achieve it. And then I maintained it for a while. And I was like, well, this is like not really all that it's cracked up to be. I kind of want other things like I'd rather have a heavy squat and like, you know, be able to do a 300-pound deadlift. And to me, that was like, way more exciting. And so I kind of let that goes and, you know, have let it go for a lot of years. Because, yes, on the other side of the six-pack, there's not rainbows and butterflies and …

 

Heidi  33:51  

So then how do you look at a woman who is like, well, I just want to at least try it to be like me, I will make my life better with a six-pack. So how do you answer that? 

 

Amber B  33:59  

Yeah, I mean, I think that's really good, really, there's a lot of people listening who are probably that person, right? And the answer that I would have is like, why are you doing it? Like, what are you doing? Because of the process of doing it, which is why I went into it, it was like, Yes, the six-pack was the end goal but what I really wanted was the process that it took me to get to the end goal. So do you enjoy the process? Is that the fun part for you? It's like the challenge is the fun part. And yeah, I got a six-pack at the end but like, if I had not gotten a six-pack at the end, the challenge would have been just fun enough for me in and of itself. So I think that the distinction is like do you enjoy the process that it takes to get you there? If so go for whatever you want. If the only reward that you're seeking is the end destination. Well, now we have a problem. So that would be the decision like what do you want? Is it only the end process? Or is it the process to get there and it's not that you don't want the end process, but you have to like what you're doing along the way to get there? 

 

Natalie  34:59  

Like what does the whole enjoying the journey love the process mean? Like, what are the things like what does that even mean? Joy in the journey, love the process like what is that?

 

Heidi  35:08  

That means that when your alarm goes off, you like to sit up and you appreciate the fact that you have the chance to get going. You create you thank yourself for the hard work that you do. You set up things and you set up your life and your habits in a way that feels rewarding. You don't even so eventually you don't want to give it up. You look at it as a training process. Right? Like, as you said, when you were talking about starting CrossFit, you were like, I knew it was gonna require change, commit. And as soon as I was ready to commit, I was like, Okay, tell me all about it. How do I start? How do I make progress? Right? Like you'd like that humility, that coachability like that, that willingness to? Like we get so like, one of the hardest things that I think we do as coaches try to unravel people's like, superset mindset issues, and dieting beliefs and whatever it's like, what if we could think about this another way, right? What if tracking didn't have to suck? What if exercise could feel good? What if the process could feel inspiring, because that's the reality, your results are a reflection of how good the process feels?

 

Amber B  36:16  

Oh, I like that. Now, are you ready to talk about your last cut?  I'm kind of putting you on the spot. I know. We can always get out. But I think if you're ready to talk about your last cut, I'd love for you to share some perspective because it's kind of like what some of the things we're talking about. I'm enjoying the process and stuff. And that came to head for you in your last cut. 

 

Natalie  36:40  

Okay, so yeah. All right, let's do it.

 

Amber B  36:44  

 I didn't trump before.

 

Natalie  36:46  

Oh, no. So what was interesting about it is that you know, I had bent, you know, had had a couple of successful deficits, I definitely am not a stranger to the hard work, I'm great at tracking, I'm precision like I really do hold myself as in assuming that I'm someone that I can achieve a goal. And I want it, I can put my mind to it. So we had just finished, you know, we were in quarantine. And I had just made a deficit around February to April. And it was a beautiful textbook cut. Because I had spent over two and a half years in maintenance. And so what that textbook cut means guys, I know a lot of people wonder what it is like, you just have a really great rate of progress. Like you don't have to spend a lot of time you can achieve a goal. It was like a 10-pound weight loss goal and about six, seven weeks. Just nice steady downward trends. Like that's to me what a textbook community is, like, get in and I get out, and I get what I want. Right. 

 

Natalie  37:36  

So at that time, we had started doing the art of Gen pop transformations with Mark Carroll from our Carroll's programming. And Heidi and I had never been hired officially like a coach that has like programming, and nutrition. And so what we decided we're like, you know what we're in quarantine. Sounds like a great time to like, try it with a coach. Right? So we reached out to coach Glen Carroll, who's Mark's brother, Mark wasn't doing one on ones at the time. And most of his clientele are like bikini world bikini pros, right. And we're like, we don't we but we liked science, we like his brain. And we definitely wanted to be with an intelligent coach and somebody who, you know, could teach us a few things, right? Like coaches need coaches. And it's fun to like, learn from other people. So we signed up. And that was August. And so of course, in my mind, I'm thinking like, okay, I've seen these transformations online, I know I can put the work in, I'm great in a deficit, he's gonna give me programming, maybe I'll finally get to see like this body that I want to see. And it's not that I hated my existing one. But I just want to do as possible, you know, you see a lot of these online transformations of these girls and, you know, quads, hammies. Like, I definitely wasn't anticipating abs, so maybe a flatter, a little bit flatter stomach, maybe I'd like to actually see some delts or you know, or have like a nice, you know, jack back or whatever. So, I definitely went in with some expectations, because I'm like, I'm hiring this coach. We're signing up for like a girl, you know, 12 weeks. I knew that it was gonna happen in 12 weeks, but I thought maybe I would see some results because I was just lifting a ton and I had just come out of a deficit. So I was already kind of low and so we diverted and dove right in so he put us right into a deficit right away. And so that was a little bit surprising to me, cuz I was like, Oh, I thought you had to like builds first. But that was just part of RAM. He would give us programming and also put us in a deficit. 

 

Natalie  39:19 

So I was like, Okay, well, I know how to make a deficit. I'm also, you know, with a coach now. So let's just see how this goes. So initially, it started on the 14th, while my last two cuts were on the 15th. And I had lost successfully and so I'm like, Oh, that's kind of weird. I wonder why I have to go so low. But I'm like, Alright, well, I'm a professional. I'm gonna just press what he says. And so I started at fourteen. Things weren't progressing the way he thought, move me to the 13th, twelves and the very end, I was sitting in 11 and 1195 with five days of lifting and an 18,000 step target. Now if you know me, I did all of it because that's me. And that's also where my results are, right? Like, that's what it takes. I was willing to pay the piper, right? Cost of being lean. I'm here for it. Let's do it. And so I did it. And you got to see me during my part. And it wasn't horrible. The sense of like, I actually had some really great PRs in there, I was still seeing strength gains in the gym. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I have high body fat so that was helpful. I think I got like a 275-pound deadlift. It was like, I mean, I can be awesome, it was awesome. Like I was, I was still enjoying a lot of PRs and strength PRs in a deficit, but my body was not budging pound-wise, the way that I would have expected to such low, low calories. You know, and initially, you know, we had just ended our relationship with one of our business partners, and she transitioned into intuitive eating so it wasn't really the time to talk about eating super low calories and not having any results from it. Right. Like, I could Oh, it was definitely like the worst possible time to be like, I'm hitting 1195 and see nothing. She is like dying the worst, it's the most awful thing ever. Don't do it. You're ruining yourself. It gives you body dysmorphia, and disordered eating, and blah, blah. And I'm thinking like, like, this is what I'm doing, right? 

 

Natalie  41:11 

And so long story short, I think I ended up getting maybe seven pounds out of 12 weeks, I have extremely low calories. And I was really, really defeated. I was gassed, I was exhausted, I couldn't do it anymore. I found myself doing a lot of disordered thoughts and thinking and actions that I would have never ever done. And I've never done it before in my life. I've always been overweight. So I've never been like, never, I didn't come from a history of eating disorders. I also didn't come from like, oh, I used to be a size zero, like none of that, right. And so all of a sudden, I was in a really, really dark, dark place. And I remember sitting with Heidi and Jenna and just being like, I just feel really disordered, I feel I have really bad thoughts about myself. I feel really low. Like I don't know, I don't feel motivated to do things anymore. I don't feel inspired by my goals. I kind of low-key hate my body because it didn't give me what I needed. And I did the work. And I mean, I found myself sleeping just so I didn't have to eat like all these things that you hear. And you read any you know that women who have disordered eating a bus do like I find myself practicing them. And I'm for what to get another pound, or another pound or another pound. And not even near my lowest from the first set of cutting numbers that I did, like I was still seven pounds away from that event. And so it just put me in a really, really important lesson to learn because I realized that he doesn't, it doesn't matter what he will take he would have taken me lower. If I had seen the tape, he would have put me in the lower elevens or even the thousands because that's what it takes to get the result you want. It's kind of his mentality behind it, you know, so

 

Amber B  42:50  

And so mentally, because I think it's so interesting that that's happened all at the same time, right of like, the preaching of like, diet culture is awful. And it's terrible. And you know, everything our businesses stand for is bad for women, and we're promoting things that are terrible and giving people eating disorders is becoming very loud, online. And it's the same time that you're starting to see some of those that like yeah, this really can lead to these disordered thoughts and like this is ordered body, body dysmorphia, and things like that. So I'm curious for you guys, as you're navigating this together as a partnership as a business as an individual. Like, you know, how did you make those two worlds fit together and walk yourself through that? 

 

Natalie  43:36  

Heidi, your thoughts? Have you lived through it?

 

Heidi  43:37  

I mean,  it's about I think, I mean, the first word that comes to mind for me is respect. It's a respect for yourself, respect for your, for the process respect for your mental health as well.  I cut around this around the same time as well. I wasn't actually planning to do a build and they were like, we think you should cut first and I was like, that's offensive. Okay. I wasn't super emotionally ready for it. But I also have a little part of my personality that if you just get me at the right moment, it's like I like I'll jump first. Did bungee jump with a big group of friends one time they called me first and I'm like, why obviously can't get back down I guess the age-old answer to the question like if all your friends jump off a bridge with you? Yeah. So I jumped and I wasn't super ready. A lot of chaos going on in my personal life. And it really reinforced on a whole new level how careful you have to be with dieting. It's not like you said it's not something that can be sustained for long periods of time. It's something that you it's not something that can be added on top of your already existing stresses. It has to be something you very, very carefully orchestrate that you're reducing the outside stressors, you're making time for self-care to making time for rest and recovery and not paying attention to how you feel. I shelved it. I just completely ignored whatever I can do, whatever I can do, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. And I got results. And I got out, but it felt terrible. I mean, it was not without a couple of breakdowns, some of the worst probably in the last few years. But again, it's because I chose probably one of the worst windows of time for myself personally and prioritize weight loss over my own personal care. And whether you're successful or whether you're not that compromises your relationship with yourself.

 

Amber B  45:40  

Is any part of you scared to put that out there because it's fodder for people who are like the sea of diet culture?

 

Natalie  45:50  

Honestly, no. I think of anything it has made, it has created more clarity for uncommon than ever. And it also has once like Heidi mentioned, like creating more compassion for women than ever because we have both chased. Currently, we both achieved leanness, you know, Heidi, actually, then she got incredibly lean at that time. And then going into a surplus after it. I mean definitely has had his own level of mental hurdles as well. And I'm here sitting in maintenance. I'm 10 pounds up from my deficit. So I really felt like last year was a waste which was even more upsetting. Right, it hurts even more because of what it costs me. And trying to heal my metabolism, right? Because I am literally broken. I mean, I had to get some blood tests done because I still sleep like crap. I think it was an accumulation of a lot of stressors and then doing a lot of damage to my body, which I had never done before. And I'm paying for it. And so I think that we get on a lot of levels, a lot of the same. I mean, I think there's definitely a level of people like Oh, you guys go to donuts all the time. You guys just don't be like you care. I get it whatever you want, or whatever it's like. Yeah, but there's also like, that was all we all that was also pre-learned for us. Right? But last year was pretty brutal. We mentally both took a hit. And I think it only has made our passion and desire to help women even more because we've lived it like I can read and coach women and say, What was it like you can't do you don't want to go any lower, you cannot. Like they will not give you anything, you know, like I've been there with I cannot go any lower than 1195.  I remember how somebody should be home. I'm like, I can't do it. I can't, but I literally could not. 

 

Heidi  47:36  

Well, and similarly that the symptoms of low-calorie eating are real and functional. I can feel a lot of anxiety and depression and can make those conditions worse. It can mess up your sleep, it can mess up your libido which can mess up your relationship, which can mean there are so many like all the defeating thoughts that can spill into how you treat yourself and others. Like it's definitely a complicated thing. And like there are women in our program who feel like they're meeting themselves for the first time at maintenance calories because they take on all of those symptoms of low calorie eating as personality characteristics. Oh, I guess I'm just lazy, oh, I guess I'm just unmotivated. I guess I just can't control it. I have no willpower or whatever. And those are things that we were talking about earlier. Those are the thoughts you're practicing about yourself. How's your relationship with yourself now? And so it's like, I don't feel any shame in admitting these things because I don't we've never been ones to pretend to be perfect on Instagram. Like or that we are without, you know, anybody image issues or anything like that, where you know, macro misfit. 

 

Heidi  48:44 

But, I feel like sharing it. It's like,  I mean, it definitely shows that we have empathy for it and also shows the expectation that your negative thoughts or feelings about yourself or your body or in general that those will ever go away. It's not about those going away. It's about being supportive of yourself through them because also we're all getting older like there's a point where no matter how many PRs or how much you're you know, whatever level of fitness or body fat percentage you get to it's like we they're still injury they're still sickness, they're still aging like you at some point your body if it hasn't already will disappoint you and can you be supportive of yourself through that? Not fix it, not pretend it, not blame it, not ignore it, but can you acknowledge it and support yourself through the negative emotions?

 

Natalie  49:41  

And like the two like kind of big takeaways of the whole experience for me, it's like there is the cost of being lean and there's also the cost of wanting to be lean, and the cost of trying to be lean they're not all the same thing. Right? It's like yeah like you Amber prove that you can do, you can be lean. The cost of me wanting to be lean cost me a lot and I didn't get to be. And I think a lot of women don't realize that too is like they want, like, let's just, you know, not everybody turns, let's just say everybody cares about a statement, I'll just make a blanket statement. Some of you will have no problems achieving it. And some of you will never ever get to see it, no matter how low you eat, how often you diet, how hard you work, it's just like, that is just the that is the truth. Like people don't all get to have the same thing like some of us are going to have to work harder than others to have certain things, you get to decide if that's worth it to you. And that cost wasn't worth it to me. And I paid a really hefty emotional price for it. And what else I realized, and this kind of comes full circle to like, you know, we're back in CrossFit and things like that, are that only caring about what my body looks like, is not healthy for me. I have shelves, a lot of performance bowls, I mean, a little bit forced because we're in a pandemic, right? Like, I mean, we weren't CrossFitting, it was harder to like, you know, there weren't any coaches or anything like that. I mean, you could. I could have probably tried to figure it out on my own, but it was like, I had a whole list of stuff that I wanted for CrossFit that I never had achieved or accomplished. But I was like, Oh, you know,I want some aesthetics now. So I'm going bodybuilding. You know, we hired this coach and blah, blah, blah, like, you know, we're just coming off of another coaching thing. It's like I can spend all this time working on what I look like, it's not healthy for me. It might be healthy for somebody, but it's not for me, right? It's like I need to care more about what my body does, and what it looks like. And that's why CrossFit has always been so good for me. It's because it didn't really matter how much not weighed, or how lean she was, can that check like crush a whiteboard? Can she assault her face off? Can she string X amount of things together, because she lived like that was healthy for me? Like those goals are helping me kind of like we were talking about, like performance goals that are healthy for you. Like you don't really have a specific aesthetic goal you're chasing right now. And that is healthy. But when you spend more time on what you look like and what you can do, it's never enough and it's never fast enough. And it requires even more self-love and compassion to fit through that than it does to just get happy and stoked about who you are and what you can do. Right?

 

Amber B  52:01  

So good. So bit off of that like talking about this balance. Somebody asked how do you incorporate daily WODs into your lifting? So I want you to share what that's looked like and how that's transitioned. And I think it piggybacks off of some of the things that you were just saying,

 

Heidi  52:18  

well, it's kind of to be determined, to be honest, like, we were my words, we've definitely felt some dwindling motivation over the last few months. And I mean, it's so interesting. As you guys were talking about this, I'm sitting here thinking, it's so interesting how we just want the negative emotion to be gone. But like the other half is the negative emotion like when you know what you don't want, you know what you want. And the other half of like, a hard challenge is the inspiration and chasing it right. And it's like, initially going to bodybuilding was great, because we were so excited about building up our specific lifts. And like that was going great until we weren't getting the piece of the plate anymore. 

 

Amber B  53:07  

Yeah, and that's a real thing too. Totally 100%,

 

Heidi  53:13  

Especially the heavier I get, the less pings are earned. Believe it or not. Right? I'm getting an extra pound on that lift. And it's like it's similar. So for me like chains, it's not that I have not liked bodybuilding. I don't. It's just that I need to change. I just need some. Watching the western conference last weekend was super inspiring. It just, I'm a person who just loves to, like, call it my ADD or whatever. I'm like, what's that shiny thing? Let's choose that. So let's go. Let's go do that for a while. Because it is. It's you gotta chase your passion, there has to be an element of like, I'm like, that's so freakin badass. I want that. Man, I want to go after it.

 

Amber B  54:02  

And I so it's funny, as you were saying that, like the pings of the plates. That hits me because to me, that's what it's like, that's the ping for me. It's not stepping on the scale, that's the ping. It's definitely the like the plates or the reps or the like hitting a muscle up for the first time. For me, that's the ping. And so I told I was telling Heidi, one of the reasons that I switched from powerlifting into CrossFit was because I got to the point and you get to this point as an advanced lifter like you haven't made it there yet and you live for long enough you're gonna make it to this point where you have to work so hard to put any more like five pounds on the bar is like a year's worth of training. Right, and when you get to those heavy lifters like it takes a lot of effort is a higher effort to get much less return. And so for me, it was really exciting as I could see those lifts progressing and I could feel the rewards and it was like the weight was going up. And then I peaked with my squat. But I peaked with my squat at a competition. And then we did a de-load and I like resetting. And I went back up I like, and couldn't hit that number again. And then I reset and like went back up and I got even lower, it was like I was getting weaker, and the pings were like, gone for me, it was like, it's not worth me to put in all of this effort to get five more pounds on my squat that doesn't feel fun in the slightest. And that was when I was like, Okay, I'm ready to go try something new. So it's interesting that you said I never put it in that perspective. But for me, the pings were and maybe are just like the same disordered, like a weight that some women are with the scale. It's like my pings are with, like, performance goals, and how much can I do.

 

Heidi  55:42  

But what's so exciting about I think, performance goals, though, and also like with the sport of CrossFit is that you're never going to be good at everything 

 

Amber B  55:49  

Totally, Like it may be there's always growth.

 

Heidi  55:55  

What I like about, from the first time you kind of walked in to even now Amber is that you're always hungry, because it changes so much variety, right? And totally a variety. It excites you. But it's like, I know that there are workouts that even now you're still like, Oh, not look fun at all. But you're supposed to do it because it's a challenge, right? Yeah. Even something. And I think that I also love CrossFit so much. It's like they've made it just hard enough, that you'll never be good and never get great. Even if you're the fittest woman or the fittest man in the world, like you're anatomically there's no way you can do what you're good at. And only the horizon, you keep chasing and always something to get better at. Right? And I think, for your own time to improve, it's like, you will always be able to have a faster friend. Like whether or not you're chasing it actively. It's like that is what's so cool about it. It's like it gives you you can always have pings in CrossFit. Because it's constantly very great. But also enough that like, it's challenging to you, and it's exciting, and there's enough very like variation in it. But it's not just like, I mean, and we love Ollie, for sure. And you love powerlifting but there is a point where you're like, Okay, so I'm doing these couple movements.

 

Amber B  57:07  

But what else? Yeah, well, and that's like the difference between what one of the differences between my husband and I'm so my husband's a surgeon. And so he is all about precision, perfection, and technique. And so he loves Olympic lifting, he loves powerlifting because you can break those lifts down into like 120 different positions. And like, it's all about perfection and precision. And to me, I'm like, I get bored. I don't want to sit there and break down from the knee to the hip. And like what that actually looks like, I don't want to do it like a bajillion times. So he doesn't really quite understand when I'm like, This is so fun when we do all of these things. He's like, No, I just wanted to slow the movement down and make sure that I was hitting the right hip crease pocket, but I'm like, No, we're so different.

 

Heidi  57:53  

And you're like, sweetheart, you could do that. And like the same question. But when we're doing this partner WOD, you're like, hop out of this bar. Yeah.

 

Amber B  58:03  

Yes. Okay. Let's do some unadulterated thoughts. That's what I think unfiltered is maybe a better word. This person uses the unadulterated that's a good word too. Unadulterated thoughts. I'm gonna hit it quickly. Okay, so the first things that come to mind unadulterated thoughts. Cardio bunnies…

 

Natalie  58:24  

Oh, sweetheart, I know. I mean, I was a believer that was the way to be thin. Right? You cardio your face off. I mean, it's like the elliptical or the treadmill or running, right? It was like, runners are thin. That's how you become thin cardio. Cardio meets heart was more important than the heart. Right? And calories burn. Right. And also, there's a huge sweat factor. And who doesn't like to be a bunny?

 

Amber B  58:53  

Okay. Pilates junkies.

 

Heidi  59:00  

Um, go for it. I mean, it's like what's your goal? Right. 

 

Amber B  59:05  

Do you remember that reel that we did? That I got hate mail about?

 

Heidi  59:11  

Yes, that one. I mean, at least Pilates is using bodyweight. Yeah, it's friggin hard and your core. Phenomenal. Yeah. But it's like if you're getting that it's kind of like you're getting that strong. Like just put a barbell on those hands. 

 

Natalie  59:27  

And it's like, I think Pilates like it actually has it just like I feel like yoga. Yoga has a purpose. So does PilatesI actually have no beef. The bummer is you think that the burn means muscle growth, which is not what that means. So I think that's the only thing about Pilates is like, it burns us. Yes. But that doesn't mean his muscles, muscle growth, right? So it's like, just I think with all have anything, it's like, well, what's the reason you're doing this for and is it going to give you what you want? If you're just doing it because you like it? It's like spin. It's like spin class, right? Spin class has its place. It's frickin fun, huh? But it's just cardio.

 

Heidi  1:00:00  

Totally, like there is this little group they've met outside of my daughter's school every morning through the winter. And they would all take their shoes off on the freezing cold grass and do like and she counted out like knee like mountain climbers and squat jumps and stuff like that. And I was like, man, I wonder. Like we as women can be so idiotic with like, how we assign randomly assigned harder things to the things that are already hard, because we're like, more effective this way. Yes. Perfect. Like if I get up at an ungodly hour and do something under horrible physical conditions. This is going to make me get to my goal faster.

 

Amber B  1:00:37  

Yeah, so true, right?

 

Natalie  1:00:38  

I think right but also the like, No pain, no gain mentality right?

 

Heidi  1:00:41  

Did you choose to go fast Amber? Sorry. We talk fast. 

 

Amber B  1:00:48  

Intermittent fasting.

 

Natalie  1:00:51  

It's just a strategy. There's nothing magic about it. Like if you like it great, but there's nothing. But don't do it because you think it's gonna yield better results? 

 

Amber B  1:00:56  

The faster way to fat loss. 

 

Natalie  1:01:03  

Yes, let's make the most painful you unnecessary, and take every single thing about every single diet and put it into one for better results.

 

Heidi  1:01:11  

Do you realize how much you love math? How much are you? Are you like TJ?

 

Natalie  1:01:18  

Oh, well, this is the thing. It's not a faster way. It's an over-complicated way to fat loss. But I think that there are so many things about it that make women believe more lies about weight loss than it does help them like, it makes them believe that carb cycling is important. And internment fasting is important. And like all these different things. It's like, No, actually, they're all strategies.

 

Heidi  1:01:41  

Yes. And that's the thing that just bugs about like, it's such a pet peeve of mine, when people capitalize on convenient assumptions there who are like, yeah, or there's a correlation instead of causation. Like there's, I was at a gym in Utah, and there was a scale of bodyweight outside of the cardio room. What possible reasoning could there be for there to be a scale there? There are no conditions? Would that ever be your accurate weight ever, ever? Especially in the pub, like you're stepping on there with your shoes and everything. But because it's there, and it's a gym, everyone's gonna think oh, well, obviously it's here for a reason. Let me weigh myself. Or cardio room weight loss.  It's just any way. 

 

Amber B  1:02:24  

Biggest pet peeve when it comes to clients. 

 

Heidi  1:02:28  

Oh, non- coachability,

 

Amber B  1:02:29  

Oh, I was gonna say the same thing. We're not on the same wavelength.

 

Heidi  1:02:32  

I think that is what it is. It's like, yeah, realize we love our job. But if you're if you tell us 1000 reasons you can't and 1000 reasons why you won't change then yeah, I mean, what do you? Well, it's like your question about tracking. It's like, Hi, knock, knock, knock. Can I join your program? Put your program so you can help me with my stupid, horrible dumb body, like?

 

Amber B  1:02:55  

Well, we're not gonna start with your body. We're gonna start with your mind.

 

Heidi  1:02:58  

What you can say, once you know the feelings first, action, right? It's like, I don't believe him. It's like when the people that come are like, I just need to lose weight. That's all I need from you. I don't need any help with my mindset. 

 

Amber B  1:03:10

Oh, well, you just demonstrated that you do. 

 

Natalie  1:03:15 

But the second someone says they don't need it. Well, the three of us are like, Oh, 

 

Amber B  1:03:19  

That's cute. Other pet peeves when it comes to Instagram. 

 

Heidi  1:03:36  

All the judgments, just like so many judgments. Yeah, you know, like, a bit. I think one that really gets under my skin is people that don't have kids tell you how to feed your kids. You know, like, oh, you're giving them you know, junk. Don't give or like another one I hate if they don't it's not an excuse to eat like an asshole. 

 

Natalie  1:03:56  

Yeah, I hate that one. That one so much. I didn't know that. 

 

Heidi  1:04:00  

Like, if food is neutral. How does eating any amount of food or any variation of food make you an asshole?

 

Amber B  1:04:06  

Make you anything? It doesn't. 

 

Heidi  1:04:11  

That's that kind of stuff. That's not helpful, you know?

 

Amber B  1:04:14  

Diet culture.

 

Heidi  1:04:17  

Made up. 

 

Natalie  1:04:21  

Yeah, we have like, X Files level conspiracy theory, then the diet industry actually made up diet culture.

 

Heidi  1:04:30  

It's like, it defines your terms. You know, it's just like, everything that means something different to everyone. Same thing with the word healthy. Same thing with the word maintenance. It's like, What? Stay calm, like, you know, back to that question like stay calm and maintenance will What does maintenance mean? What is it called me? Suddenly, we're staring into the vortex.

 

Natalie  1:04:53  

I mean, diet culture, it's like, I mean, it's defined. I mean, I think the three of us would probably have similar ones only because we've talked about it, but there are a lot of people who define it in different ways. That's it. That would really be.

 

Heidi  1:05:01  

Well, and there's a lot of people that would condemn diet culture at the same time that they have a very diet, diet, culture in thoughts, you know, it's just that there's no big bad diet culture waiting underneath your bed. There are just stressful thoughts and reality that the reality that those thoughts create

 

Natalie  1:05:23  

A bunch of failed attempts at diets that you're trying to do to make yourself feel better about yourself.

 

Amber B  1:05:29  

So good. Alright, last question. What is the diet/workout/macro/lifting/CrossFit, like whatever myth that you just wish would die? 

 

Heidi  1:05:43  

Only one? 

 

Amber B  1:05:44  

only one if you had to just like, wipe one away.

 

Heidi  1:05:47  

Carbs are bad. 

 

Amber B  1:05:48  

Oh, let's get one. 

 

Natalie  1:05:50

I just didn't like how delicious they were. And I mean, how you hate on carbs. The whole like, fruit makes you fat like that ties in with the carpeting. It's like, no one ever was like, Oh gosh, these apples. You know, I bet brocco fit is posted. Some girl commented, he has spent a whole summer eating blueberries and watermelon and being late. She's like, You ate only blueberries and watermelon the whole summer, you don't need anything else. Like good and good, great grace. The fiber was through the roof. And the way

 

Heidi  1:06:30  

You eat nothing else. Well, and I feel dumber, I feel like that segues perfectly into what I was gonna say, which is like, you know, kind of what we've hinted at earlier, like, I can't be happy until I lose weight. Like, okay, so you're telling me that you've been miserable every single second, you've been at this weight. It's like your stop identifying with your most nightmarish thoughts about yourself and realizes you have the power to soothe yourself and redirect and focus on what you want to create for yourself in your life.

 

Natalie  1:06:57  

I love when Heidi says like, did you laugh at him today? Then you have just proven to yourself that you can be happy. If like,

 

Heidi  1:07:03  

you can make yourself you know, it's not. It's not realistic to be happy all the time. Right? So remind yourself of that. Also, when you think all I need to do is wait, man, I'll be happy. What's yours, Amber? 

 

Amber B  1:07:17  

Oh, I think it would be something similar to like, if I get x, then I will be confident. I think confidence specifically is the thing that I hear the most is like, if I get a six-pack, then I'll be confident or if I lose 10 pounds, then I can wear the swimsuit or whatever is that like link to confidence that it's some sort of external thing that you have to achieve rather than an internal thing that you have to create. So I think that would be totally mine.

 

Heidi  1:07:47  

So totally, right. We can fix things and then we think that those negative thoughts will go away.

 

Amber B  1:07:53  

Yeah. And how do we know that that's not the case? I've worked with 1000s of women. And I can tell you that some of the women who are the leanest are some of the most insecure. And they're most miserable, and they're not happy and they're insecure and they pick apart their body. And so that tells you that there's not causation it is not like if that was the case that everybody who was like walking on stage on the fitness competitions would be super confident, and let me tell you what they are not. And some of the most confident women I know are not bodies that you would look at and be like, I want her body. So we know that confidence it's not an external job. It's an internal job. 

 

Heidi  1:08:32  

Well, isn't it funny that confidence really comes from achieving something hard? 

 

Natalie  1:08:36  

It actually really had nothing to do with the end result.

 

Amber B  1:08:38  

It comes through the process. And I think that links back to like, it's like the process is like, yes, and I'm big on setting goals. I think we should set goals, I think they set the vision, I think they tell you where you're going. But it's when you create that attachment to the goal of like, I have to achieve it. So that I'm enough, I'm confident or whatever, that's we have the problem. And it's like when you can really focus on the process of getting there. And that's totally

 

Heidi  1:09:02  

supporting yourself all along the way, knowing that the worst thing that can happen is a negative emotion. And if you will support yourself through that, you're unstoppable.

 

Natalie  1:09:12  

And maybe that's really the one that we want to debunk at the end of the day is that losing weight does not make you happier.

 

Heidi  1:09:18  

You're as happy now as you will be on the other side of your weight loss goal. So hurry up and go get happy.

 

Amber B  1:09:24  

Yes, hurry up and go get happy. I love it. Well, I mean, as always, like we could sit here and chat for hours. If someone's like, heck yes, I want to be BFFs with them as well. Where do they find you? Where's the best place to connect with you guys?

 

Heidi  1:09:40  

On Instagram, we're butteratyourmacros. And we generally have like a hidden little treasure on and tik tok because we love being there too. But they're definitely not our people. They don't like us. More at what's really announced ourselves Yeah, what's it butters and also on Twitter. It's a butteratyourmacros or you can just come to CrossFit. 

 

Amber B  1:09:58  

Oh my gosh. If anybody ever comes into Orange County and wants to come to hang out at CrossFit downtown Santa Ana, please. We'll be there. I'll be there at 5:30 and they'll be there at 6:30

 

Natalie  1:10:08  

She'll be with us at 6:30. But no one will take me to court. The court we're doing

 

Amber B  1:10:18  

Amazing. Well, Natalie and Heidi, you guys are the best. Thanks so much. 

 

Heidi  1:10:22  

Thank you. Love you. Bye-bye. 

 

Amber B  1:10:24  

Well, I for one, really enjoyed that episode. I hope that you guys enjoyed listening to us, it sure is fun for us to have friends. And it's fun to have friends who come on the podcast who we can talk about all this stuff together. And I know some of you guys have mentioned, wishing that you could come to work out with us or that you guys could come to be friends with us. And we wish that too. So really, if you're ever in the Orange County area and you want to drop by and CrossFit with us, we would absolutely love it. 

 

Amber B  1:10:55 

The last thing before I sign off if you have not yet left a rating and review on iTunes, please, please will you take five minutes, it's not even five minutes, it's like two minutes, and go leave a rating and review on iTunes. It really helps the show to be able to be seen and it helps the podcast app to push it out to more people. And I'm just really grateful for those of you who have taken the time to leave a rating and review. And if you're liking the podcast, take a couple of minutes and support the podcast. It's a really free, easy, cheap way that you can support what I'm doing here. Thanks so much for being here. I'm Amber now go out and be strong because remember my friend you can do anything. 

 

Outro

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