323: [RANT] 7 Harsh Truths You Might Not Want To Hear with Natalie Dulaney and Heidi Bollard

Introduction 

You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio Episode 323.

Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PR's. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife and mom of four. Each week my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in. Now, let's jump into today's episode.

Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke. And today I have two of my very favorite people on the podcast, it is Butter Your Macros, none other than Heidi Bollard and Natalie Dulaney and these two are colleagues. They are also real life friends. And they're brilliant. And I, I love our conversations. We have an idea of where this conversation was, would go. And we, like, went so many places that we weren't expecting, but that we're so good, like that's what happens when you can just get three people in the room who get each other, who can dive deep into topics. And I'm just really excited to be able to share this topic with you today.  

So we kind of go into it at the beginning of the episode of like, why we're having this conversation. But, you know, as a disclaimer like, this is not meant to be mean. This is not meant to even be very pointed towards any one person. But these are just things, things that we've seen over the years you know, I've been coaching since 2016, Natalie and Heidi were shortly thereafter. So between the three of us, we've coached thousands and thousands and thousands of women, and we've been able to see patterns, we've been able to see things that sometimes you don't even see in your own journey. And like we mentioned at the beginning of the episode, these are not things that would be very helpful sometimes to say directly to a client. But we thought if we could just get on a podcast and speak, speak freely about them. Some of these may not apply to you at all, and some of these might, and I think that's the beauty of being able to kind of go through a list of things is some of these you may be like that's not anything that I struggle with, but there hopefully will be things in here that you're able to have some insight into. Maybe where you're getting stuck in your journey and be able to have that, that moment of self-reflection, that's also the beauty of being able to listen to this in podcast format is that the stakes are lower, right? Nobody's talking to you. Nobody's addressing you. I'm not saying that this is your problem. I'm just kind of speaking generally about issues that I see and struggles that I see clients have and if I could speak candidly to them and kind of slap them lovingly upside the face. These are some of the things that I might, might be helpful to you in your journey. So between the three of us, we have some amazing insight and I'm just really excited to share this podcast episode with you. Let's roll it.  

Amber B 03:03 

OK, back for another round of the best podcast interviewees possible is Butter Your Macros. Yes, Heidi and Nat. And we, we like to do podcast episodes every once in a while, every once in a while at the gym. We're like, we need to do another podcast episode and that was how this podcast episode came to be. So, welcome guys to the podcast. 

Natalie Dulaney 03:25 

Thanks. It’s always so fun. We actually like being recorded actually would probably opt to do this more often, just fun to have a chat, anything like. 

Amber B 03:33 

Yeah. 

Heidi Bollard 03:33 

It's something really magical, guys when you find something in line with a lot of the same beliefs and ideas and people which sometimes is like a rarity industry, you're like these are going so well. And then he said that. 

Amber B 03:46 

Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, we've said this before, but it's like we have some of these discussions when we have lunch or when we're at the gym. And so it's kind of fun to be able to have them on the podcast as well. So we're we're talking about these things outside of, you know, in our normal day-to-day lives and we kind of just get to let you in on some of the conversations we're having either in our head or together as friends. OK. So let's set the intention maybe for this podcast, because we've gone back and forth on the title and we'll see what the title ends up being, but we like what? Where are we coming from as coaches, as we start to have this conversation together? 

Heidi Bollard 04:22 

So I feel like there's, you know, within coaching are these in my perspective anyways, like I think the most effective type of coaching is when you are like asking client questions like leading them to a conclusion that they draw themselves like the insights you make into yourself are always going to be the most insightful and that's really where the transformation happens. Right. But there is still just this human part of me that just wants to just cut to the chase, you know, just like, say it really directly.  

Amber B 04:51 

Why can't you see it? 

Heidi Bollard 04:52 

And yeah. And even for any of you who, like, who aren't coaches, it's like it's. You know, if you're a mom, for example, it's like looking at a first-time mom and just wanting to tell them. Oh, just relax, enjoy it. You know what I mean? Like, it's like that would completely fall flat because they have to experience it themselves in order to come to that conclusion. So this is just a very, I mean indulgent, if you will, podcast for the three of us to just be like what are, what if we could pluck our own eyes and stick them in your face. Like what we would want you to see in yourself? Like what we wish we could just say directly and actually have it like change things for you.  

Natalie Dulaney 05:31 

And I feel like my hope would be that you take these thoughts and these ideas and these coaching kindnesses I mean about like a reflection for those. I'll bring maybe assess, like where you're at, where you do, and you're coaching a little earlier today. And the clients mentioned here I am again or here we go again. And having such a common thing amongst women as we embark on goals and in the world trying to like accomplish is like here we go again with like a little bit of like whether it's the feed discussed, whatever behind it is just like thinking maps or something. I can't seem to do something, so it is like the composition of many years of us coaching thousands of women together and just being like, OK, just listen, listen to this. And allow us to help us help you create the value of life and this, you know, getting getting into your goals on the field, but also just like maybe some blind spots that you just don't even realize, I think sometimes, how many times, like are you tempted to say I told you so, but also like you had to know for yourself. 

Heidi Bollard 06:37 

Yeah. Yes. 

Amber B 06:38 

I think to speak to that like we recognize that like saying this to our clients is not good coaching. It's not gonna help anything. It's not. It's not actually gonna make a difference. It's actually probably gonna make things worse. So we recognize that the things that we're saying is not good coaching, which is probably one of the reasons we don't usually say them out loud. But at the same time, if if we can say them out loud, but maybe not to you directly, it feels less personal and so maybe you'll be able to have some insight that you wouldn't be able to have if we were coaching you directly because it would feel very personal if we said these. 

Natalie Dulaney 07:10 

Beautiful disclaimer. I mean we’re really all about, this is the, this would be the coaching lead, the horse to water example. We're just gonna actually throw you in the water. See if you're drinking while you're down there. 

Amber B 07:21 

Yes. OK. So we kind of made a list together. Nat, you have the list, so. Let's start with #1. 

Natalie Dulaney 07:26 

Yeah, let's lead off with number one, You're Overthinking This. 

Amber B 07:30 

Yeah. OK, this was mine and and the way that I was like thinking about it is like sometimes clients are focused on like they're stuck trying to make a decision between two things. And it just freaking doesn't matter like it like just is not going to move the needle that big either way. And you're so hung up on making the decision and you're putting so much weight in this decision that you have to make and you're just completely overthinking it. And I just want to be like, look, it doesn't matter. Just freaking pick one and like keep going. 

Heidi Bollard 07:59 

Totally. It's like, you know, in different industries and industries they call it like B plus work, right? Like, it's like everything has to be the most optimal, the most strategic, the best possible, best possible thing you could choose and and to that point like the stress that you were giving yourself putting yourself under that kind of pressure is so counterproductive and if anything leading you like straight into burnout. 

Amber B 08:24 

Yes. Yeah, so much. 

Natalie Dulaney 08:25 

I think what I like to make them choose like you have somebody who doesn't really focused on like one aspect of their rules and they kind of negate everything else is kind of like doesn't see as much anymore. But I think for a long time, people want which supplements should I take? Like don't have a water hole place. They don't care about fiber like they haven't even approaching chicken like your red and greens are not going to save you from your lack of this right or how like super fixated on how much time it has been doing this like, I don't know if I should pay 46 weeks or 68 weeks or eight to 10 weeks and how will we just get started. And every single week and we'll just see where it goes, right, I think. Kind of like what shoes should I get like for my workout shoes, you know, just start exercising and we'll figure out the shoe piece. 

Amber B 09:14 

Yeah shoes don't really matter. Yeah, and and and when you like, you know, social media, I think contributes this to a lot as well is because everybody has their own like, little stick. And they have their own little thing. And so you scroll on social media and like you come across an account and like, that account is all about sleep and how, like, literally nothing else in the whole entire world matters. But your sleep matters, and if you're not focusing on your sleep and so then people become hyper fixated on just their sleep and they don't care about their stress or their eating or their workouts or their water, or they're anything else because they've been convinced. That if they just fixed this one thing right? This is classic marketing. If you just fix this one thing and then it's gonna fix everything else or they go on this deep dive into like just their gut. And I'm not saying like gut health isn't important. But like, when you're ignoring literally everything else and like, this is the one thing that's gonna come and save you, like, again, you're overthinking it. Like it's we don't need to just focus on hyper focus on one thing. It's like Wellness is is well-rounded and it's not ever going to be just one thing that's going to fix you. 

Natalie Dulaney 10:14 

We would walk towards everyone picks weight loss as the one thing to fix everything.  

Amber B 10:18 

Sure, sure. 

Heidi Bollard 10:19 

Totally. I mean well I went to rabbit hole with the best of them and like really like deep dive into subjects like you've got to come back to like a moderate pace. Like like how to. Like you know. Implement this in tandem with. Like the other rules that are also important to you too.  

Natalie Dulaney 10:36 

The irony is like relevancy and all the other things that you're doing, nothing actually contribute to exactly super care about sleep. Then you should care about all the other things too. And and I'm not. I'm not overthinking. Maybe it's like, how does this actually complement my life? Like, how does this all work together. Absolutely interesting. More. Also, the more time you spend over thinking, the less action you're taking, which means that you're just wasting time like that. 

Amber B 11:01 

And here's where I want to like give people a little bit of an out. Like I get it when you're on social media like everybody is telling you everything and it's like the only way to do it. So I get it why people are confused. I get it why people overthink things while they like have put it so much in their mind that I like this decision. Everything weighs on this decision like social media is communicating that to you. So I get why you do it. And at the same time stop it. Like it just reading you. 

Heidi Bollard 11:24 

Totally, totally. I mean, this is certainly like just an aspect of human nature, right? Like, not something that you're going to like, conquer or get rid of. I mean, this is literally, like stable vibes. It's really the the tortoise plodding along like, you know, keeping keep having a moderate, balanced approach, but like there is this tendency among us to humans to think that the more difficult we make it, or that the faster we go like the the, the more the better results we're going to happen in reality, the opposite is true, but it just it's so less sexy, right? 

Amber B 12:01 

Yes. Yeah. All right. What's next Nat? 

Natalie Dulaney 12:03 

OK, next one. OK, next one is you think you're doing it, but you're not?  

Heidi Bollard 12:12 

Yeah. 

Amber B 12:13 

This is me. 

Natalie Dulaney 12:14 

It does hurt a little bit because I think we are all guilty of this. It's kind of like when you think, Oh I haven’t eaten anything all day. All I had was a salad, not really realizing, this is like Natalie tale row of how much salad you had that was actually like number when you're treating someone and picking up from work and we would like not have eaten all day, not even breakfast. Do you have time for lunch and you go out to dinner and you go to Cheesecake Factory and we were like. We're gaining so much weight over something we're we're never eating like we just go and eat dinner. We we're we're just like, why are we getting so much weight? Well, I don't know, because the serving was for the family of four, but it's kind of like this. Why am I not getting the muscles that I want? It’s because you might not be actually doing  what takes to get the results. 

Heidi Bollard 13:03 

Yeah, I mean this is, I mean, well said. I feel like it might just like complicate it, but there is. It is absolutely possible to live in a in a restrictive mindset and not actually be creating a calorie deficit. I wish it was not us, but it it absolutely is and you could be choosing the low-fat chips and you could be not having the treat that you really want and be making up for it in in other ways. 

Amber B 13:32 

Nice. Yeah. Well, and I mean it, if we can recognize that it's possible to be in a restrictive mindset and not actually being a caloric deficit. It also is possible to be in a caloric deficit and not have it feel super restrictive. Right? So like this idea, like, it's the opposite as well. But I do see a lot of women who are still in that restrictive mind instead of I can't have that. That's off limits for me, I'm not. But then when you actually look at the numbers. They still haven't created a caloric deficit, and so you have like the worst of both worlds. It's like when I had. It's like when I had my second child. I got an epidural, but it didn't start working until after I delivered my baby. And so then I didn't get the pain relief of the epidural. And I was numb afterwards. And I got, like, the worst of both worlds. It's like the exact same thing. You have the restrictive mindset, and it's not actually doing anything. 

Heidi Bollard 14:16 

A hundred percent. 

Natalie Dulaney 14:17 

Well I'm also just like making sure that what you are doing actually, you know, people who intermittent fast or be part of our diet, you can actually still overrate if you're the best and you can, you know, like how much are you eating, you know how many calories, right. I know I didn’t eat like anything or just guessing, we're like probably like 5000 calories. Didn’t you or did you actually eat 5000 calories? 

Amber B 14:43 

You actually know that. 

Natalie Dulaney 14:44 

Yeah. And if you were really spot on an accurate you wouldn't even need like my told me it was really like this. 

Heidi Bollard 14:52 

Totally. I mean, it was one of the most eye opening parts of learning to have macros which like fun fact, Amber was my first macro coach, was one of the most shocking parts about it was I just assumed that because I didn't have, you know, the like, the “body I wanted” that I must be overeating and I would subjectively judge myself based on like The Cheesecake Factory experiences, right? Whereas on like, you know, a typical. The typical pattern for me would be to go to The Cheesecake Factory, eat my fat, eat my entire meal family of four, whatever you want to call it, and then the next day be like, oh, I should really cut back. Like I should just have, you know, like an apple or an oxygen or whatever. And then where it's really just like having so most of the time I was shorting myself. And and maybe it wasn't a lot, but but most of the time I wasn't short. I was shorting myself and that is a pattern that showed up in my life in multiple ways, right, like, subjectively, my assessment of myself was always like you should have done better. You should have done. You know, you could have done more or whatever. So that is. Having learning to be a little bit more objective about yourself and about your behavior is a is one of the best skills that I that I gained from from tracking macros and that's where it started. 

Amber B 16:12 

We had the conversation once about this of like our tendencies and the defaults to either under assess ourselves or over assess ourselves, and I tend to be like an over assessor like I think I'm great. Like I think I'm better than I really am. I see this in my I see this in some of my children too. Like their tendency to like, think they're pretty great. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, you're great. Like. 

Heidi Bollard 16:35 

You pretty freaking impressive, Amber. I'm totally contesting this, but please continue. 

Amber B 16:40 

But I do, but I but I am an over assessor like just. So, like again, I'm great and I will always over assess myself always like. 

Natalie Dulaney 16:49 

What was the highest self grader, lowest self grader. Whether you do. Yeah, you when you the treasure. I mean I think this is this is what's tricky though like. 

Amber B 16:51 

Yes, that's what it is. 

Natalie Dulaney 16:58 

Because it's also not too critical. Like you don't. I mean, you have plenty of people who don't even doing that ever. Everything money is right. And so it's like it's all about being objective to who you are as an individual because there's a layer of you that like should probably be a little bit honest, right? Like I know there is. I think I posted it a couple times and nobody likes this one, but it's like before you quit like you consider what did you do to deserve to succeed? Right. And it's kind of true. Like a lot of people were like, you know, like, I gave up. I didn't even work. Like, you know what I'm saying? It's like. This is, I think, depending on who you are, you're going to. I'm never going to. I'm never doing enough or I'm always. I'm plenty, where’s my results, right? So we have little signs of the spectrum, just more about like which one are you recognizing who you are. Like, even if you really are not like a high self grader than you think you are, then you need to operate right. If you were a little self grader 

Amber B 17:51 

Yes. 

Heidi Bollard 17:55 

Those those terms came from the class I took in college. Me and my. Me and my older brother, my older brother, has like a amazing and we both did, you know, have the same curriculum and like it was a religion class. So that one. Yes. Particularly tricky for me, so at the end of the semester, the professor handed us out an evaluation for us to assess how well we did in the class. Like what we thought of our performance. And so of course I'm like. Oh, I, you know, I I did read the material, but like I could have studied it harder. And like I didn't. I I did, you know, attend. But I didn't make this class like my number one priority, you know, blah blah, blah. And it's interesting looking back now just knowing my personality and the kind of codependent tendencies I think I graded myself low. And maybe even hoping the professor would be like. Heidi. Come on now. You deserve a little bit better than that or whatever. But I graded myself low. My brother graded himself high, and that is the grade we got in the semester. 

Amber B 19:05 

Yeah. Ohh. 

Heidi Bollard 19:02 

Right. But it impacts the lesson I gave myself. Like B minus or something that I did, I did the work you did. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And it's just. But it's so.  I'm here. It's a great like, you know, became like a parable for me of like, yeah, something to kind of watch out for as. Far as like, yeah. You're. You were. Well, it's going to be humble. Like the definition of humanity, where, like, you're amazing. And so, so is everyone else. That's the definition that really speaks to me because being being self critical or assuming the worst by yourself does not a humble person make. It is like it is a low self esteem person is a mental yeah. Of yourself and others, yeah. 

Amber B 19:52 

And I think like the older I get, the more I I see this in so many areas of like, there's just like, it's like two sides of the same coin. Like like if you are an undergraduate and you're an over grader like they're just two sides of the same coin. It's not like what's right and what's wrong. Like they're they're both insecure in some way. Yeah, and compensating in some way. They just compensate differently. And so when you can start to realize, well, what is hard for me is probably the thing that I should be doing right. It comes very naturally to be self critical. And so you shouldn't go to the thing that's easy. You should go to the things  that's hard, which is to be self compassionate. For me sometimes it's really easy to be self compassionate. And so I actually need to go to a place that maybe I am more honest and self critical of myself. Again, two sides of the same coin but like they're both maladaptive. And we don't want to be maladaptive either way. 

Heidi Bollard 20:40 

Totally and like overly relying on other people's perceptions of you versus underlying? Yeah, totally not exactly does that. 

Amber B 20:45 

Versus not listening to other people. 

Natalie Dulaney 20:46 

But it exactly gets us, to balance both of you. 

Amber B 20:51 

Natalie’s the healthy one in the bunch. 

Natalie Dulaney 20:55 

Actually I feel like I actually know how to dance both sides pretty well with myself, but I'll definitely give myself credit where I know I really deserve it,  

Amber B 21:02 

Yeah. That's awesome. 

Natalie Dulaney 21:03 

And I definitely will or I don't think it's. I don't actually actually joking. I don't actually know which one. I really think that there are tendencies of like usually kind of like whether insecurity holes or when growth holes or whatever, where you actually can have no actually making way better here than this place where this whole the whole reason those podcasts is reflected.  

Heidi Bollard 21:28 

Yeah, so I mean. All this to say like like. If you're approaching the goal of any kind, see what kind of objective data you can gather about the goal as opposed to trying to determine your rate of progress or or your progress by how you feel like that is that can be a very dangerous game, especially if it's the week before your period. You know. So we should keep that in mind. 

Amber B 21:49 

Yeah. How you feel is never a good metric to go off of. 

Heidi Bollard 21:53 

Yeah. It's it's. It's like the scale. It can't be the only metric. It's an important metric, but it can't be the only one. Yeah. 

Amber B 22:00 

Yeah. That's true. That is true. I will say that like, that's something I've learned in my, you know, now that I'm 40, 

Heidi Bollard 22:06 

Awesome. 

Amber B 22:07 

I know is that I feel like. Yeah, yeah, I know. Right my my default is to go into my head and not into my feelings. And that's been something I've really been trying to cultivate is recognizing that again, it's not that head is good and heart is bad or feelings are bad or can't be trusted. They're actually both really valuable. And if you go too far to any one way, it's two sides of the same coin, like we need both of them and so I tend to lie, rely really heavily on like the mind, and I've really been working more on how can I rely more on my body? How can I rely more on my feelings? How can I rely more on that just inner knowing because I tend to go into my head and it's great and also there's dark side to it. 

Heidi Bollard 22:48 

100% and even when we've been running with macros, it's like this is what we're always trying to communicate to clients like it can't be all restriction. It can't be all indulgence to get to your specific goals, just like right there that that moderate middle ground is actually, you know, as unsexy as it may be, is exactly where we where we want to be. 

Amber B 23:09 

Yeah. 

Heidi Bollard 23:09 

To get sexy. 

Natalie Dulaney 23:10 

I mean, they thought that building Yang is such a really, really. I mean, it really has to be that way, right? It balances everything and like. All the things right. OK, so let's go to #3. What you're doing is not sustainable. 

Amber B 23:24 

Yes. 

Natalie Dulaney 23:25 

So this comes to mind when I think a lot of the all or nothing thinking, think we have some women who feel saying like every single thing you could possibly check off and going and then. The piece falls out and they're unable to make these meals and it's like, yeah. And it's like the sustainable part I think is also part of that whole self-assessment piece of what is actually really, really, really legitimately sustainable for you. Like, can you do this like, right now in your life is five days a week or five days a week exercise realistic for you? No. Really more like 2 to three. OK. It's kind of like what we have to do. And like the concept of the meeting yourself, where you're at right, we're giving sustainability for everybody is going to be different and seeing a bit of pace where you have sprinters and all these wonders and what speed is sustainable for you, then you can assess that. But I think there is this idea that I have to inherently change who I am going to be successful as it is. I'm not so to be unfair to like who you are as an individual is what I think can create some unsustainability.  

Heidi Bollard 24:28 

Totally. And like there may be there may be. You may not know certain things about yourself because you've never. You've never tried like we have this one client recently who came back to our program after a while and this time she actually. She she had a baby in the middle and this time she actually tried not pre planning everything and not pre logging everything and like a direct quote from her last you know couple weeks ago was like I kind of can't believe how much easier this is and and and of course Nat and I were like you know completely resonating with because we were not pretty planners either but. So I my point is that like it may be the approach that you're taking is not sustainable, may it may may not be the goal, it may not be the the pace, but being curious about the ways in which you can accomplish the thing can lead to a lot more self understanding and like and again like more self compassion. Like we're trying to be trying to put a round peg in a square hole, right like that, that that we can we have this? We have this also like I have this human tendency right to like whatever is not my way I tend to put on a little bit of a pedestal like Oh well I can't really pretty plant but I wish you know pre planning seems like that's the way to go. 

Amber B 25:51 

That's the better way to go. 

Heidi Bollard 25:52 

Because I can't do it. It must be better or whatever and and that's not that's that is not the case. It turns out like you can actually build a business on not being a pre-logger.  

Amber B 26:03 

Well, I think there's light. I mean, there's light and dark to everything. And I think when we pedestalized something, what you're not recognizing is the light that you have for your position and sometimes the dark that the other position has. And I think what we can really understand, there's light and dark and everything, there's benefits, there's pros and cons to everything. And if you're saying, oh, that that must be better, you're probably not seeing the dark side of that, and you probably aren't quite recognizing the light of yours. I think about my son is reading a book. The book called Quiet, which is all about, like, introverts living in an extroverted world where the the world really prioritizes and puts on a pedestal, extroverts as like the way to be and live in the world. And he it's been really good for him because he's much more introverted and he's seen that like the other great things for extroverts. And there are negative sides that we don't talk about. And there are powers that introverts have that extroverts don't have as well. And so when we can really say, hey, the way that I am has some really great, awesome things to it. And you know, the other way has some great things as well. And they also have some negatives and it's not that one's better or the other. Like we just have different strengths and that's what I think of. It's like pre logging isn't the right way to do it, it has its strengths, it has its downsides, and you get to figure out which way works for you. 

Heidi Bollard 27:17 

Yeah, absolutely. And like again, that's just when when you can, when you can understand you can increase your self understanding, it also increases your ability to like to validate yourself and support yourself and encourage yourself like I I absolutely, I love that I love that example because that is. Yeah, that is just something that is so pervasive in our culture that if you're shy, if you're quiet, if you're, you know, if you're, if you're not like a social butterfly, you know, those are things that you should learn or change or fix about yourself and and and can lead to masking and pretending and role-playing and all kinds of destructive things. Whereas like acknowledging the value of of your qualities. 

Amber B 28:01 

Yeah. 

Heidi Bollard 28:02 

You know the light and dark I love the way you framed up. Yeah, so good. 

Amber B 28:05 

Yeah. 

Natalie Dulaney 28:07 

I think also just in respect to like sustainability, yeah, looking at this like you know the definition, but it's like sustainability is the ability of the society to exist and develop without depleting natural resources that are needed in the future. And I think how interesting to think of that in terms of like your goals and when you're able to accomplish it's like if you are going to need energy in the future or need the ability to do this, and you want deplete that with this right. And how like you have a lot of diets out there that are very like. They're called quick fix type of like for instance like. Obviously, anytime you have anything where you're any kind of extremes, you're playing like the light in the dark and the values of things, is that right? And you really can really believe you're never going to have a carbohydrate again then by all means do this. But if there is a chance that you might. Maybe consider is it sustainable for you to maintain this kind of result right? And like you know, even with mainline strengths like can you sustain, can you sustain, you know 5 to $1000 a week paying for this job, this shot for you? If your answer is yes, then by all means it's sustainable for you. But if you can't, then it's probably not sustainable. So we want to make sure that like whatever we're trying to accomplish our goals with makes sense for our future like we want to think about it in the long term as well, like if we're doing sustainable for you to maintain your weight cause enough just to use it, you want to like maintain it. Yeah. I know that's super nerf. 

Amber B 29:31 

Well, I don't know if it's made it onto the list, but that makes me think about what we were talking about earlier before we hit record was like right now may not be the time to do this and I think about if you're thinking about, hey, I'm going to need some energy down the road because I have something big coming up or I know that there's a lot of stress in my life or I don't have a lot of time like now is not the time to be dedicating to be draining those resources. If you know that this is, this is not a good time for you to be able to make that dedication towards, you know, changing your lifestyle. 

Heidi Bollard 30:01 

I I sorry. I'm like anecdote clean today. But like, I remember probably eight or nine years ago conversation I had with my husband where I I was in the zone where I was just. I was doing a lot of things for a lot of people and not taking very good care of my care of myself and it was like madly not being at the time. And he was like, he's like you gotta stop. He's like, you think it doesn't take a toll, but it does and. It's like women can be so notorious for, like, overextending themselves. And you know, the critic called Human Giver syndrome, where you just like, you just think you can keep producing and producing, but like energy can be very finite and it's never more finite than in a calorie deficit where you literally literally one of the symptoms of being a calorie deficit is like more negative thoughts. Like, you know, things like that where it's. Like you really. If our brains main job is to conserve energy. And you're also in a calorie deficit like you are. You're you're kind of hemorrhaging energy, and you have to be, like, realistic that you're putting, you're that you're taking good care of yourself and you're putting the energy towards the things that matter the most to you instead of just, you know. You know, blowing it on on, you know what other people want from you and that kind of thing.  

Natalie Dulaney 31:21 

Like with your son being an introvert, like there's a finite amount of, like, socialization you can handle. So you've got to pace himself and learn how to, like, be in a social situation like my social battery is gone. And also I think it's important to consider that, like, what's sustainable for you right now might not. A lot of times we find young women are I used to do that and so I couldn't answer. I've done this before and you're like, OK, we're not even the same person anymore. So, you know, there was a point in and he was wearing when you were cross sitting at a crazy, crazy late like 5 AM, 5:30 AM, five days a week. Like, you wouldn't even consider it a rest day. Like we're all. Just like no more. And now it's like, ohh you'll be like I'm only going to do this class. I'm gonna try to pick my classes because I want to. It's got to be friends to me, right? So with us and it's like for me to judge myself against the past version of Natalie, he's like super out there because he was the single at that point in my mind, whether or not it really was a completely other conversation. But like that, it was now not so much and so also on that part of yourself too, because a lot of women are like, OK, that's great. How about now? 

Amber B 32:34 

Yeah. And going back to what Heidi was saying about like your limited resources as well, this wraps into another one that we talked about which is like those last two 5 lbs aren't going to make that big of a difference and the cost for you mentally and physically is exponential for a lot of these women, and like nobody's going to notice, you're probably not even gonna notice when you lose those last 2 lbs like it. It just is not gonna make that. The juice are not worth the squeeze for for a lot of people at that point. 

Natalie Dulaney 33:01 

We’ll if you’re always choosing 2 lbs and always choosing 2 lbs because only going to be another two and another two and two and another two, another two, right? 

Amber B 33:07 

Yeah, that moving goal post is a real thing. 

Natalie Dulaney 33:09 

Yeah. And if you haven't seen your code or like the way you wanted those, and you might consider that it's not those paths, it's something else which I think is great is the next one, which is criticizing yourself is not motivating. 

Amber B 33:25 

How would you argue? It’s like what?! 

Heidi Bollard 33:29 

I know. It's like it's it's crazy because it can. It can produce short term results. Like you can. 

Amber B 33:36 

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a reason you do it right because on some level it does work on some level. 

Heidi Bollard 33:42 

Totally like it can, I think of it as like adrenalizing yourself in into action. But,  

Amber B 33:49 

Sure. But can’t have it forever. 

Heidi Bollard 33:52 

Yeah. But at the cost of like your relationship with yourself, right? Because those if you're, if you're responding to those thoughts all the time, like they are true, like they are accurate like they are what you deserve, then you're not questioning them. And so you're just reinforcing those as part of, as part of who you believe you are and you're just giving that. Like what you want to call your inner critic or whatever like. You just giving them more, more power over you and people can be afraid to like, let up on the gas from, you know, criticizing themselves because they think it goes right into that like that all or nothing thinking right? Like, if I don't do this, then I'll do nothing at all, which is, which is I, I mean, it would be. It's a very worthy test because if you can, if you can suspend that belief, if you can ask that part to just kind of like step back and you can connect to a part of you where you know you where your inspiration, where your motivation really can come from, and you can achieve way more by giving yourself a little bit of rest between sets, you can achieve way more by pacing yourself way more with like self support than you ever can by like being a drill Sergeant with yourself. But it isn't. It is ultimately a trustful. And an act of faith to like to, to suspend that criticism and and and try it a different way. 

Amber B 35:24 

I mean, like criticizing and feeling motivated and not criticizing and not feeling motivated at all is, is two sides of the same coin, right? They're they're they're they're. They're the two extremes. Like that's that's the same thing. You still are struggling with the same problem. And the problem is, is that you're not actually building on something that is., is gonna make a difference, and what you're saying, Heidi is like you're saying we gotta go to a different part of ourselves. We gotta build on a different foundation you're building on a really weak foundation and we got to go to the place of ourselves that like that isn't the make or break for us. And it's you get it's different, right, it's and I think that's why people get so stuck in this is this thinking because there is some truth to that. Like if I've only relied on my self criticism to motivate that if I don't have any self criticism, I'm not going to do anything. There is some like I understand why you would think that because they're two sides of the same coin, but we're not asking you to, like, go to the other side. We're asking you to try something totally different. 

Heidi Bollard 36:23 

Totally. And it it speaks directly to that, moving, finish line tough crowd, because if you're if you are, if you are always unsatisfied then you will then you can never appreciate the finish line even if you get there because you just move it, you you just move it further further away.  

Amber B 36:41 

Yes. 

Natalie Dulaney 36:42 

We have this like a tweet that's like, I wonder why I'm so motivated when all I do is trash off myself. And I think that's something that's like a lot of people don't realize like that just becomes your voice for everything. Yeah, like you. If you think it's only you, only use it for motivating yourself, you're totally wrong. You use it in every area of your life that leads into it like you're you're ready to leave for yourself or others for anything you want to accomplish. It will stop you getting your tracks then you really end up feeling like you can't accomplish anything and that very much less being motivated in order to accomplish anything, right? Just if you constantly are thinking like you just suck, then you will be just become this person that just sucks. Yeah, you just never get you just never get out of that hole line. Trying to say like, it's just one thing to be like, all right. Like, let's get our act together. You can go and go back. You can. You can pick us up one more time. Like like, you know, you got this like you can do anything hard for 30 seconds like whatever it is even if it's a little bit of like a All right, just pick it up. Stop being, you know. You have 40 seconds to pick up the bar again, like you don't go to it or whatever. Like, hey, idiot. Like you suck. You don't even know why you're going here. You're you're done. Like, why do you think you can even do this work out? Like, how funny do you like to put that on the bar and you can complete, like, completely different kind of narrative between those motivating and inspiring versus motivating and I like to go easy, right?  

Heidi Bollard 38:02 

Wow. So well said. 

Amber B 38:03 

Well, adrenaline is a really great metaphor for that, because adrenaline in small doses is very effective at getting you up and going, right. But if you have constant adrenaline, it doesn't work anymore, right? Like it's like now, it's like damaging. It stops working. And so I think what you're saying that is like, we're not saying that you can never be tell yourself to suck it up or, like, you can do this or like, let's go hard or, you know, like that kind of stuff. But in small doses. But if you're constantly doing it, and that's what Natalie is saying, it's like if you're doing this in every area of your life, if you're always criticizing yourself in every. It's not, it's not. Actually working. It's actually detrimental in the long run. 

Natalie Dulaney 38:41 

Well, you feel like you have like that top on today like muscle up buttercup, right? Like there was like like a. It's a good lunch. You've got this right. But then to your point about like, elevated adrenaline that's also elevated cortisol and stress. And then you really can die from it. So like no one meant to have like adrenaline. Yeah all the time. 

Amber B 39:00 

All the time. Yeah, yeah, good. 

Heidi Bollard 39:02 

Yep. 

Amber B 39:03 

Is that our list? Make it through our list. 

Natalie Dulaney 39:04 

Alright, which one we are, we're on your expectations are off. 

Amber B 39:12 

Oh yeah, that was. That's a good one. Sorry, sorry, not sorry. Yeah. I mean, go ahead. 

Natalie Dulaney 39:19 

Like social, social media has been worse than this. Like like, I mean, you talk about like the highlight where like sometimes you have women who are comparing themselves to, I don't know, ex Olympians or someone who's 7 inches taller than they are. Like, I just remember, we had a player, like, who was. Who really wanted long, lean, dancer limbs. 

Amber B 39:42 

And she was like 5’2”. 

Natalie Dulaney 39:43 

And the girl she was appearing herself? She was 5’10” and she was like 5’1” and it's like like we like genetically you you were just not as long like like and. And it's just like. But she gave that lean or to look like this person like that there was just it was not realistic. And actually like. It was actually really frustrating because she just didn't really understand, like why what she was doing would not give her this. And so I think, you know, expectations are really it's an interesting work like, you know, obviously when we. We have an expectation when we put into that localism, absolutely, but what are we expecting?  

Heidi Bollard 40:19 

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's it's even, I mean and exactly perfect analogy, but it's a little bit like the hungrier I get, the more fantastical my imagination about food becomes like I wanna eat like an emperor. But I'm not going to just, like, make myself like a, you know, like a Turkey sandwich. You know, like, this is going to be like.  

Natalie Dulaney 40:38 

It also nothing sounds good when you do that, which is also the irony I want it. I don't want, I want to be amazing, what do you want to eat? I don't know.  

Heidi Bollard 40:46 

It's a 100 percent true, right? Because it's like the more dissatisfied you are, like, the more extreme you think you need to like the more extreme measures or whatever or extreme place you think you need to go to to get satisfaction. So I think like a good litmus test for, for realistic expectations is honestly like, how do you feel about yourself right now? You know, like the more unhappy you are with yourself like like I like. That's like that's your. That's your lens that you're seeing your goals through, right. Whereas like the the the closer you are to being content now and that doesn't mean you can't be working towards things but like how can you, can you feel OK with yourself, right now, today as is. You know. That's a that. That is a good test to see you know. Where, where, where to operate from where you're operating from in terms of your goals? 

Amber B 41:42 

Hmm, yeah, I like to tell clients that like if we can, if we can come from a place of like are you OK if you don't reach this goal, right? Can we set a goal and then are you OK if you don't reach it? And if the answer is no, I'm not going to be OK if I don't reach it, that's not a good goal for you to go after, because now the stakes are so high. We're not having fun. Like, if you don't reach it like it means something about you. But if you can honestly say I I want to set this goal. If I don't hit it, I'll be fine, to your point, Heidi. Like I'm OK. Now it can become a game. Now it can be fun. Now it's like I'll be fine if I don't hit it, but I'd really like to go up to that goal. That sounds really fun, and now you can approach it like a game and a game that has low stakes you're, you're going to perform better at than a game that has this high stakes of, like, if you if you lose this game, you're gonna die. Do you think you're gonna perform like super great for a long period of time for that game? No, you'll perform better when it's just like, let's see, let's see what's possible. Let's have some fun and try this out. 

Natalie Dulaney 42:41 

I mean, let's even talk about, like, so everyone has a note. Amber qualified for the quarterfinals for CrossFit. 

Amber B 42:46 

Oh yeah. 

Natalie Dulaney 42:47 

But, she did the workout for it last Friday was the last Friday. Do you think it felt different? 

Amber B 42:53 

Yeah. Oh 100%. 

Natalie Dulaney 42:57 

Like, if you're going to be timed within a judge standing over you with that workout versus you doing it profile like, what would the difference in your head space do you think? 

Amber B 43:06 

Ohh 100% like I the reason I did that workout was I was like that looks like fun. It would be fun to do that. When I thought about doing the the quarter finals. I was like that sounds not fun. I'm not doing with the people. I have a judge like I got a video this Dang thing. Like no, it didn't sound fun at all. But like it when I could just let it go and it didn't matter. And like, who cares what you get? And those stakes were low. It was like, yeah, that workout looks fun. Love to do it. And yes, I for sure performed way better than I would have otherwise. 

Natalie Dulaney 43:37 

Yeah. Well, that's well because it's really just came out of the expectations that you have for yourself, right? It wasn't like. I would have for you you either way, right and it's like it didn't even matter for me. Like it's like I wanted her to do this, but she just really did fine. And she also did it, and it was also fine. 

Amber B 43:50 

Yeah. 

Natalie Dulaney 43:52 

Right it was. Like even though I'm only going to get like what I want and you got like what 10? 

Amber B 43:56 

No, you said. I was gonna get 10 and I was like, there is no way in. And maybe you said five. I was like, there's no way in any earth that I'm gonna get that many. And then I got 10 and I was like, Nat was right, not like. Maybe not. When I was a low self grader, I was fighting. 

Natalie Dulaney 44:11 

I like you, my total high self grader, but I usually actually can mail your reps when you're doing things right. But it's also like this is part of it, right? Like the expectations you have for yourself. Sometimes you actually like, you perform worse than when you were guard. What you're saying. And I think sometimes it's like the whole thing. Like if you look at yourself in the mirror And you can get love you either way. There's so much power in that because you have all sorts of like the flexibility for like what you accomplish. Because I like myself, even if I suck at this, right? Yeah. Like how many women we see there, like everything hinges on this scale weight like this, like 152.6, right? It's like that really doesn't give you a whole lot of flexibility. 

Amber B 44:33 

One thing, yeah. 

Natalie Dulaney 44:50 

For yourself and and and and and you feel good. You can only feel good if you're in this in this number. Then when you get to go.  

Heidi Bollard 44:57 

Totally, totally, no. I think I think it's a such, but it's such a good analogy. And I wasn't really like planning on plugging coaching in this necessarily. But like if that if what we just described feels like like super out of reach for like your, you know your your like your bad. Just you're bad unhappy with your weight or it, it just feels like you're that disconnected from yourself. This is a great opportunity. I mean, just like you were your two coaches, for Pete's sake, and it was still like, Nat had had a clarity about what you were trying to accomplish. We didn't have and like that support and that cheering you on was helpful. And a lot of times like. Like getting out of a shame place by yourself is is not only tremendously difficult, it can actually be dangerous. So like having somebody to help support you, whether that's a coach, a friend, somebody that you can show you can be vulnerable with, you can like be on be truly honest with about everything from how you look in the mirror to like the to the bite, lips and tastes to your thoughts. Like all of those things, it's it's tremendously healing to be able to have that kind of vulnerability met with like non judgment and support and acceptance and and that is a way that you can you can actually learn and train yourself to to treat yourself that way. It's it's a, it's a, it's a beautiful thing and I mean. So if it if it, if fun feels like a stretch like like, get yourself a coach, get yourself a friend. You know, that kind of a thing. 

Amber B 46:34 

Yeah, yeah, that's good. It's really good. 

Natalie Dulaney 46:39 

I think it's just like also, just like remembering that there are people who want the best of you, who actually believing that you can do it too, right? You are not your best that you’re sorry, right. 

Amber B 46:51 

Well, and and hopefully you've surrounded yourself with people. And if you don't have those people like like you, we all need those people who can see more in us than we can see in ourselves, right. We all have a a distorted perspective of ourselves, you know, none of us have a clear picture of who of ourselves. So having people in your life who can check you. Both on the. Like, hey, let's be a little bit more realistic on this so they can check you that way and then they can also check you on like you're undercutting what you're capable of. You can really achieve more is really valuable. And if you don't have that in your life like that is something to really look for because you need those people in your corner, who could be really honest with you both ways. 

Natalie Dulaney 47:29 

It's kind of like goes through all these. I mean I hope that when you as you're listening this, you received a lot of this love, right? It should have felt a little bit soothing as your soul to hear these things, you know, maybe even end with like, you actually look better and you're doing better than you think as. Well, you have parties and it's like. 

Amber B 47:43 

Yes, such a good one. 

Natalie Dulaney 47:46 

I mean, it's just like, so funny how we sometimes you're like, why are you sad? Girl like you. You should be so. Yeah, right. And like it does, like kind of hurts your soul a little bit because, I mean, if you really can have a good gift for like the world of living for a living and you just really, really appreciate themselves because then. You would appreciate each other all 100. And just change the whole dynamic of everything. I mean not to like go into like buildings of like. You know, self-awareness, self love, like kindness, generosity. But also like there are people in this world that do want the best for you where you have like you should also be one of them.  

Heidi Bollard 48:20 

Totally. I mean, between us we've seen thousands of women in your underwear and without family they usually come in with like the monkey with the pictures coming with like the monkey emoji with their hands over their eyes, you know or like in the subject line and without fail. I think it might be like a Shitz Creek thing or whatever, but we don't feel like you open it up and it's like the more Kelly losing your head like my. God, you are. A beautiful thing like why? Why are you? Why are you? Like it doesn't mean you can't achieve a weight loss goal or get stronger or whatever it is your your goal is. But like, I mean, you're you're capable of doing that. You you have a body that will do that, you have a healthy body or you already have a strong body like, you know, coming from a place of, like, appreciation and acceptance. I mean, every every woman deserves to feel good about herself. 

Amber B 49:13 

Amen. 

Heidi Bollard 49:13 

Period. Full stop. 

Amber B 49:15 

Amen. 

Natalie Dulaney 49:16 

And think historically, the most successful women are the ones who are actually smiling in their awful pictures because they're know they're they know they're in the mood to, like, embark changing themselves. Right. And it's like there is, there is shift exciting like your goals should feel planned. Your point you should they should terrify you a little and. You want, right? And I think that that's really kind of what this whole thing is about with one thing at all. It's like you're not going to master everything, especially not regularly. Yeah, but you can also really enjoy doing it. 

Amber B 49:46 

It's such a good place to end on so good. Oh, I mean, I love it so that we can, like start. I had no idea where this conversation was gonna go, and I feel like we pulled out so many important threads that people can can learn from it. And again, I hope you're taking this with love, right? It's like this is meant to, like, not be harsh. It's meant to, I don't know. Maybe we're gonna put on the title. Like it's, but it's meant to be like. These are the things that we just we wish we could like, take you in our arms and just like make you believe. Like if we could just make you believe this and I know that that's bad coaching and I know that we can't actually do it and I know we actually don't have control over any of that stuff. But if we could do it and we could just like IV it into you like it would make such a difference in your journey. 

Heidi Bollard 50:27 

I know, it it's like it's so funny how people are afraid, that coaches will judge them when, if anything, what I'm trying to like get out of my head before a coaching call is like to not have the agenda that, like, makes you feel better, to be just, like, allow you allow you to be where you're at, you know. 

Amber B 50:45 

Yeah, yeah, it's either with. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Just to hold space. You know that coaching thing that we say of, like holding space can be one of the hardest things we do as coaches because we wanna just. It's like a parrot. You wanna Russian? You wanna solve it. But you know that like doing your kids homework for them or solving the problem for them is that one of the worst things that you can do because they just have to learn it themselves. And I guess that's, you know, a great way to like say, wrap up this whole episode is like. These are the things that we'll we're not going to ever just say this to your face during a coaching call because it wouldn't actually help you. We know that we know that it's not great coaching and at the same time like if you can listen to this and really start to integrate it into your journey, it will make the biggest difference. Yeah. So good. All right, well, plug your guys' Instagram. 

Natalie Dulaney 51:31 

Oh, I mean, you can find us at Butter Your Macros and you can find at bicepsafterbabies.com. My favorite thing ever is like when you pop up on Instagram, it says BicepsAF is my favorite. 

Amber B 54:46 

I didn't realize that. 

Natalie Dulaney 54:47 

It’s so good, I’m like BicepsAF. 

Amber B 54:51 

That's that's going to be my like round two business name. I love that. All right, well, this has been so fun. Thanks for being on the podcast, guys. 

Heidi Bollard and Natalie Dulaney 51:59 

Thanks, Amber. Bye. 

Amber B 52:03 

All right. OK, so hopefully you felt like my friend Monica Packer always says, like a hug with a kick in the pants. Like, it's like that, that balance between like, You're amazing, You're doing great. And like, let's kick, like, they'll kick the pants. Like, you can do better. You can do this. You got this. And hopefully that was kind of how this podcast episode came off because I really do like we said that and like, you're doing amazing. I mean, honestly, even the fact that you're listening to this podcast puts you in, like, the top five percent of people who care, who are like doing something to help in fitness, there's not a lot of people who are spending their time listening to podcasts like this, so it already speaks to like your level of dedication, your level of commitment, and we just want what's best for you. We want you to be successful. I want you to be able to have everything in your life that you want and you know some of these truths hopefully woke you up a little bit. And maybe gave you a pause and allowed you to have some self-reflection that was really the whole goal of the podcast episode. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber, now go on and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything.  

Outro

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