356: Making Macro Counting An Easy Habit with Robyn Conley Downs
January may be nearing its end, but it's already been full of incredible stories and Robyn Conley Downs is no exception! On the podcast, I am joined by Robyn, MEd, Founder & Editor in Chief of Real Food Whole Life, who's passionate about making healthy living simple, sustainable, and doable for everyone. Her "protein-forward" recipes are a game-changer for busy families.
In this episode, we talk about habits, Robyn's macro-counting journey, and the unique approach that led to her long-term success. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by trying to do it all or frustrated by a lack of progress, this conversation is full of relatable insights and practical tips. Don't miss Robyn's inspiring story and advice to help you embrace a healthier, more enjoyable lifestyle this year!
Find show notes at bicepsafterbabies.com/356
Follow me on Instagram and Tiktok!
Links:
Robyn Conley Downs' Website and Instagram
The Book The Feel Good Effect https://realfoodwholelife.com/fgebook/
bicepsafterbabies.com/waitlist
Show Notes
January may be nearing its end, but it’s already been full of incredible stories—and Robyn Conley Downs is no exception! On the podcast, I’m joined by Robyn, MEd, Founder & Editor in Chief of Real Food Whole Life, who’s passionate about making healthy living simple, sustainable, and doable for everyone. Her “protein-forward” recipes are a game-changer for busy families.
In this episode, we talk about habits, Robyn’s macro-counting journey, and the unique approach that led to her long-term success. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by trying to do it all or frustrated by a lack of progress, this conversation is full of relatable insights and practical tips. Don’t miss Robyn’s inspiring story and advice to help you embrace a healthier, more enjoyable lifestyle this year!
Find show notes at bicepsafterbabies.com/356
Follow me on Instagram and Tiktok!
Highlights
- Robyn’s resistance 07:34
- Importance of collecting data 13:53
- How macro counting fit into Robyn’s life 20:45
- Habits and habit formation 24:23
- How counting macros influenced Robyn’s family 33:01
- Robyn’s advice for where people to start 41:31
Links:
The Book The Feel Good Effect https://realfoodwholelife.com/fgebook/
Introduction
You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio Episode 356.
Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PR's. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife and mom of four. Each week my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in. Now, let's jump into today's episode.
Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, and you are in for a treat today, my friend because I've got a guest who kind of feels like a long-lost friend. Robyn from Real Food Whole Life is here. Let me just say, the more we talked, the more I realized how much we have in common, and not just in how we approach health and fitness, but in how we're both really committed to making this whole healthy lifestyle actually a lifestyle, make it feel sustainable and realistic for everyone. Robyn is a powerhouse when it comes to making healthy habits stick and really making it easy to cook good food for you and your family. And I love that she uses the term protein forward. She says her recipes are protein forward.
So, in this podcast, we talk a lot about habits. We talk a lot about Robyn's journey and how she did so many of the right things when she started counting macros. Some of the things that I feel like sometimes I'm talking about a lot, but are really hard sell to people because it's not the way that they want to do things, right? Sometimes the things that I say feel a little backwards, but I promise you there's a method to the madness. And Robyn followed through on that method and you're kind of see how it really shaped and formed the results that she was able to get in the long run. So, if you've ever felt like you're trying to change everything at once, you're trying to do all the things, but you're not actually seeing the results that you want, this episode is for you. Robyn's story and some really fantastic tips that she gives about increasing your protein, cooking meals for your family. This is such a great episode. So, let's welcome Robyn to the show.
Amber B 02:41
All right. Welcome to the podcast, Robyn. So excited to have you here.
Robyn Conley Downs 02:46
Amber, I'm so happy to be here.
Amber B 02:47
We were just chatting before we hit record and we've discovered we're a little bit of kindred spirit. So I'm excited to share a kindred spirit with y'all on the podcast.
Robyn Conley Downs 02:56
I feel like we have so many overlaps in what the way we think about things, the way we teach and then our shared, like our audience. So I'm so excited.
Amber B 03:03
I love it. Perfect. Okay. So if someone's not familiar, just do a little quick introduction of you, what you do and all that good stuff.
Robyn Conley Downs 03:10
Sure. And I feel like I can combine that with the story because they really go hand in hand. So let's see, time means nothing anymore. So I have a really hard time talking about time in general. But I do know it was 2014 because my daughter was born in 2012. So it was like two years after she was born. I was really on a health journey. I had health goals, but I was also working full-time 60-hour week job. I was also in school full-time. Not a good idea. Don’t recommend that.
Amber B 03:42
Yeah, that’s a lot.
Robyn Conley Downs 03:44
And then, you know I wanted to feed my family and I felt like I had to compromise on one or all of those things. And I was really unsatisfied with the idea that I had to compromise and yet it seemed impossible. And I felt like a failure. I think that was such a big theme. And something I hear women say all the time, I'm doing all these things and I'm not doing anything well. And while I don't think that's actually the case, I think that's perfectionism.
Amber B 04:11
Yeah.
Robyn Conley Downs 04:11
I also think the way that I was trying to do everything was not going to work out in terms of a balance. So I set out to solve my own problem, to figure out how can I continue to have this job and maybe back off of school a little bit, but have this feed my family, take care of myself in a more sustainable way. And so I started at this time, the thing that you did was start a blog. And I don't know that that's exactly the way people do it now, but it was so long ago now in the digital world. So I started a blog. It still is called Real Food Whole Life. And after a while it really became about recipes because that was for me the thing that when I got home from work at six o'clock and I had a two-year-old and a partner who also worked outside the home, it was just a you-know-what show when I got home. I was hungry and all my health goals would be compromised at that point. So I wanted to find just recipes that were so realistic, so simple. And it was embarrassing for me when I first started sharing them because I was like, this is ridiculously simple. It's embarrassingly simple. But what I realized is actually that's not true.
It's just very realistic. And a lot of people really became part of the community for that. Fast forward a few years, I started a podcast called The Feel Good Effect. My background is in habit formation, so how we create and maintain healthy habits and behavior change. So I wanted to share more about the mindset stuff. Like you do so well here. I think you're just absolutely one of the best because how we think, our thinking habits are really what's actually often getting in the way of our health goals. It's one thing to know what to do, but then the way we think about it often gets in the way. So I started a podcast, The Feel Good Effect, and then wrote a book called The Feel Good Effect that came out in 2020. Do not recommend having a book come out in 2020.
Amber B 06:06
In a pandemic, you wouldn't recommend that.
Robyn Conley Downs 06:09
Not great. It was not ideal.
Amber B 06:11
Yeah.
Robyn Conley Downs 06:12
But it is what it is. And then in 20… I actually wrote this down because again, the time after 2020, I don't know what it is anymore. So in 2023, in January, I also have a chronic health condition. I should have mentioned that because I have endometriosis, pretty significant fatigue that goes along with it. And I think that contributed to that. I need the simplest, stupidest version of a recipe because I have no energy at the end of the day. So in 2023, I'd had a lot of endo flares. I'd had some surgeries. I really wanted to focus more on blood sugar stability because endometriosis is in part estrogen imbalance and overabundance of estrogen, which not to get too sciency, I think you could probably speak more than this, but it's stored in fat, extra estrogen is stored in fat. And it felt like the one thing I can control with endo, which is very little, is making sure my blood sugar is more balanced. And the only way I can think of to try to find more energy is to macro count. And it was very much super resistant to it. And we can talk about that, but that's the story of how I got here and how I really started to think more about protein as part of this overall equation in terms of health habits.
Amber B 07:34
Yeah, that's good. I'm curious, like your resistance, because I think it's probably the same as a lot of women's resistance, but what was the resistance for you when you learned about it and you were like, oh, what?
Robyn Conley Downs 07:43
I was very resistant to starving myself. I don't like to be hungry.
Amber B 07:52
Same. Same
Robyn Conley Downs 07:53
I hate being hungry. I create recipes for a living, so it really wasn't even realistic to be on a restricted calorie diet. I don't want to set that example. I'm very, very cognizant about that. I have a now almost 13-year-old daughter, did not want to be seriously restricting in front of her. It's no way to live. And I was like, I'm just not going to do it if that's what it is. And I felt like even then now, even maybe more now, I feel like a lot of people setting macros are just, I don't know, I'm 44. I've been there, I've done that. I've seen every version of diet, which is really just a disguise for eating 1200 calories a day. And I'm like, no, pass, not doing it. And I felt like that was the option. And that's not what I teach. It would have been so out of character and out of brand for me to be like, I am now starving myself. So it seemed like, no, I'm not interested. But then I kept coming back to it because I'm like, well, it's really just balancing macros, science. Maybe I should do it. But that was my resistance for sure.
Amber B 08:58
Yeah. And then, so what was your experience? So having that trepidation of, I don't want to, I don't want to starve myself, which I'm all for that. I don't think we should be serving ourselves, but with that trepidation and you came into, you tiptoed into it, what was the experience like? And how were you able to maintain that balance? Because I do think there are people who starve themselves with macro counting. Like that's a, that happens. So how did you make sure that you didn't swing that far? And it was a way that was felt balanced and good for you.
Robyn Conley Downs 09:25
I found you. It's really that simple. It's why I always tell my audience, I'm like, if you really want, I'm not going to be, I can tell, I'll talk a lot about habits. You can talk a lot about protein, but like, if you want a full macro situation, you got to go talk to Amber. I don't know why I found you, but found your podcast and just really like your approach, the science, the mindset. And I think you did a really nice job with some series on like where to start and mistakes and all those things. So I listened and I was like, okay, this doesn't sound so bad. And what I was most interested in what you had to say, which I was doing a reverse. And of course I don't like, didn't want to hear that.
Amber B 10:13
Nobody does. It’s like, I'm the bad news bears.
Robyn Conley Downs 10:16
You are. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought like interesting, that actually might be something that is what I need to do. And so I was willing to start macro counting in the spirit of finding out where I was starting from state. I think if you look at it from a data perspective, whether you're a data person or not, I am, I was like, okay, why would I not want to just know what's going on? And I realized that I had actually kind of set myself unintentionally. I was not eating probably the right balance, but also the actual amount of calories. I think I dropped my calories too low and it really wasn't intentional. I felt very good about the balance I was eating. But when I looked at it, I'm like, well, I couldn't, I wouldn't want to cut from here because it's already pretty low. And everything you've said about what happens when you end up to on the lower side was so resonant resonating to me. So I did it.
Amber B 11:13
You did the dang thing. Fine, Amber.
Robyn Conley Downs 11:16
I did it! I think if you go back and listen to Amber's episodes on reversing, you know, you really do have to have a longer term approach to it. And for me, since it was about stability and balance and sustainability, I was like, that's fine. I don't need this to be today. So that gave me a much higher starting point, which is just such a beautiful thing. Because if I wanted to cut, I was cutting from, I mean, I don't, I could say like I ended up being on the reverse all the way to like 24, 2,500 calories. And so I think people should understand that because when they're like looking for macro balance recipes, sometimes they're like, this isn't macro balance. I'm like, well, you're looking for a recipe that's under 300 calories, which means you're trying to eat under 1,200 calories. That's tough. Like, I'm sorry, but my recipes aren't going to be that. But if you, there are ways to get up to the point where you can eat more, but it takes a little work.
Amber B 12:16
And it takes a shift in, like you said, in that perspective of like, I'm doing this for the long run. I'm not doing this to like lose 20 pounds in three weeks. I'm willing to do this in the long term. But yeah, getting women to be able to eat more calories is, oh, it's like, opens up the world to you when you can do that.
Robyn Conley Downs 12:39
It does. And I did have the motivation of thinking about like one of the things I teach is start with how you want to feel and then set goals and habits from there. And I really wanted, I wanted, I was doing it for, I want to feel energy. I need a little more energy, but I also want to feel connected with my family. And I don't want to be constantly eating a tiny amount when we're all together. As I mentioned, it doesn't work for my job either, but that was very motivating to me.
Amber B 13:09
Yeah. Yeah. It changes. It changes the whole game. When you, if you can remember back, so when did you start counting macros? Like what year would you say?
Robyn Conley Downs 13:17
January 2023. So almost two years ago.
Amber B 13:19
Okay. So when, if you can take yourself back to that moment when you started, did you start in a reverse?
Robyn Conley Downs 13:26
I started in a collection, data collection.
Amber B 13:29
Oh my gosh. You're like a dream.
Robyn Conley Downs 13:31
I know.
Amber B 13:32
If I could get everybody to start a data collection and then make decisions from there, I would be a happy, happy woman.
Robyn Conley Downs 13:36
I told you we're like the same person.
Amber B 13:38
Oh my gosh!
Robyn Conley Downs 13:40
I know that that's what you need to do in behavior change in any habit. Like if you're doing a behavior, like I used to do behavior intervention plan, you would never just make a, you would start with what's happening and then you would make a change. So I did start there.
Amber B 13:53
Okay. Why is that? So like coming from the behavior change and the habits perspective, why, why is, is starting with like collecting data so important before diving into the change?
Robyn Conley Downs 14:04
Oh, there's, we could do a whole episode on it. It's almost so obvious to me that it's hard to explain, but, because I've been doing so many years of doing it, but truly, if you don't know what your baseline is, you don't know. So from a behavioral perspective, a habit perspective, if I was going in and doing a behavior intervention project with someone or in the schools, I would like need to know where we were starting. Cause if I made a change, I would need to know the effect of that change. Whether it was a positive effect or a negative effect, I would have no idea if I didn't know where we started from. So from, I think that's maybe the simplest way, hopefully not too technical way of explaining it.
Amber B 14:47
Yes. Did you guys hear that? Did everybody who was listening in a hundred mile radius hear that? I think it's, it is the biggest thing that I have a hard time getting people to buy into because everybody is so ready for change that they just want to dive right into the change, but you're exactly right. If we don't have a baseline, then if we start tweaking things and we start adjusting things, we have no baseline to compare it against you. Is this working? Is it not working? Is everyone in the right direction? Are we not? We don't know because we have no starting point.
Robyn Conley Downs 15:14
Right. And I do think the mind, like why I think you can't do macros without the mindset side of it that you do so well is it can be, it's easier to pretend things aren't happening than facing them. And I think with macros in particular, depending on your background and how you feel about yourself and food, it can be hard to do that in a nonjudgmental way. Like to actually just document what is happening without judgment is very difficult. I think for many, many people around a lot of things, but food in particular. And so I think it's mentally a lot easier to just start tracking when you're like, no, I'm going toward my goal. I'm changing everything. This is a fresh start versus acknowledging like, here's where I actually am. So doing that in a very self-compassionate, like nonjudgmental, I'm literally just trying to figure out what's going on. And if I hadn't done it, I really would have never been able to, I wouldn't have been able to reverse because I didn't know how low it was.
Amber B 16:16
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit like opening your eyes and actually just seeing where you're currently at being okay to accept that this is I currently at. And then from that, we can build a, you know, a path forward of where I want to go, but I have to acknowledge where I am right now. It's like, if you're doing a GPS, if you put in a destination, but you don't have a starting point, the GPS cannot guide you to the destination.
Robyn Conley Downs 16:39
Yeah. And it's like having that, I think you talked about this experimental exploratory mindset of let's just see, like, interesting. I was like, interesting. I, I'm sure this is very common for you, but I was eating a lot of fat, which I still am. I go higher on fats. Like I'm a huge proponent of fats, but I definitely was as even as somebody in the industry was eating fats, thinking they were more protein than they were. Right. Like for example, peanut butter or you know, my husband's like pouring peanut butter in his smoothie and he's like, oh, it's protein. I'm like, well, kind of. And he can, I'm like, well, that was 500 calories of peanut butter, which like, maybe you want, I don't know, but that's like, I don't really want all 500 calories coming from, from peanut butter. But that's why like you can, I think you can talk about calories in a more data driven way rather than a judgmental emotional way, because it's just a fact. Like, do you want 500 calories coming from your peanut butter? Maybe you do. Honestly, for him, it's maybe he does. But I was like, no, actually like, I'm totally fine with one tablespoon of peanut butter for the flavor and not confusing that that's not actually adding that much protein for me.
Amber B 18:03
Sure. Yeah. So when you dove in to, you know, data gathering and then ended up going into the reverse, what were some of the lessons? I mean, you shared some, a couple of haws that you had, but what were some of the lessons that you learned along that journey that were really insightful for you?
Robyn Conley Downs 18:18
Oh, gosh, I wasn't eating enough in the morning. Protein. Wasn't eating enough protein or actually I wasn't eating enough in the morning. I think I was unintentionally like intermittent fasting, which we don't need to go too into. But like, I really found when I, again, with the data that when I was eating more than 30 grams of protein before 10 AM, I was way less hungry and my energy was better. I mean, that was such an easy aha from the data. Oh, 30 grams before 10, no afternoon slump. Don't get that. Feel like crap in the afternoon. It was just an obvious line of connection. And regardless of total calories or total carbs, that was true. So that gave me more wiggle room, I felt like. That was a huge aha that was pretty immediate that I just didn't, I think I had, like I said, I'm just not hungry in the morning. I'm one of those people. So it's hard to eat. And I still kind of push it more to like nine, it's really hard for me to eat before I work out at 6 AM or something. But that was one aha. I think I said about misjudging fat for protein was definitely for me one that I kind of was confused about. I think those are like the two big ones. And then also just how to, I think about like puzzle pieces or I don't know, we don't have a great analogy yet, but like how to get those meals in that don't have, are not macro balanced and don't have protein in them. And I don't need to make them have protein in them.
Amber B 19:59
Sure. I can actually just eat a cookie and it doesn't have to be a protein cookie.
Robyn Conley Downs 20:04
Right, right, right. I'm still trying to convince people that that's true, by the way.
Amber B 20:08
Oh, yeah.
Robyn Conley Downs 20:09
But like we're recording this around the holidays. So I'm like, you know, you don't have to have your mashed potatoes be high protein mashed potatoes. If you don't want to, like you could, and I could help you think about that. But like also we do pizza night on Fridays. I just look forward to it. I mean, I cook so much for my job and pizza is not a high protein. It's not a great option for protein whatsoever. And I don't want it to be. And I could just like let that meal be what it is and then compensate around it, which I really liked. That made me feel more empowered rather than restrictive.
Amber B 20:45
Totally. Yeah. And will you speak a little bit too? I mean, I think this overlap with what you said is, you know, your job is food, your job is cooking, your job is recipes. You also have a family that you're feeding. So talk to me a little bit about that overlap with how macro counting was able to fit into your life. I always say we want macro counting to fit into your life, not fit your life into macro counting. So how were you able to have those pieces come together in a way that felt good to you?
Robyn Conley Downs 21:10
My first, like the thing that I did that I still do and I think is so helpful for people to think about, and maybe it's because the work that I do is always about small shifts that equal big change. And so macro counting is not a small shift. Like it is a, if you really do the whole thing, it's a very much a lifestyle overhaul. And depending on how much you've been cooking already, it can be a 180. And so I think that's a conversation to even think about. Like if I'm ordering food and getting takeout, maybe I shouldn't start like cooking all my meals from scratch and trying to count macros at the same time. But what really helped me from the very beginning was like, I started thinking about boosts. Like I call it protein boosts, like, you know, Jamba Juice from the nineties when you can get, I think you can still get boosts.
Amber B 22:00
You can still get it. I just was at Jamba Juice the other day.
Robyn Conley Downs 22:04
Okay. So I was thinking about boosts because, you know, most of what I cook is, I would say, high protein and has become more that direction in the last couple of years. But I still think about boosts, which is like a set of really easy to keep on hand ingredients, mostly whole food ingredients that I can just add on the side. So for example, I mean, we all know now cottage cheese has had it's like…
Amber B 22:31
It's a diva in Instagram.
Robyn Conley Downs 22:32
Everyone loves it. But I love cottage cheese. So I was like, yay. But you know, that I could have a boost, like a quarter cup of a cottage cheese. You would think I would know this. I think it's like 14 grams. And then like six little chicken sausages. And then whatever else I was having for breakfast is going to get me over 30, regardless of what I'm eating. So I have like a list of the boosts and I make sure that I always buy them. And then that way really isn't… That even doesn't affect how I'm cooking. Like if that's all I did, I'm just making sure that I'm boosting through the day. And you know, protein powder is one great way to do that. But I try to like… I'm not going to do six servings of protein powder in a day. So that was like the first thing that I did that really just made it so much simpler where I could be like, you know, I can probably get to 100 just with boosts and then not even change what I'm making for myself or for the family dinner.
Amber B 23:34
Yeah. That's so good. I love that. I love that. Just such a little shift of just thinking… I mean, one, it's like adding instead of changing. It's like just adding something instead of overhauling. And then it's less destructive to the patterns that you've already established. Because again, we're just boosting. We don't have to overhaul our breakfast. We're just going to add these two things to our breakfast and then it can stay the same. And it's super easy.
Robyn Conley Downs 23:59
Right. Because if you don't want a protein muffin, like if you're already eating a muffin, maybe you want to… But it's actually really hard to make a protein muffin unless you're putting protein powder in it. Even if you put cottage cheese in it, it's not adding… Like don't let the people on the internet fool you. It's only like two more grams. So maybe you want to have a protein muffin too. Or maybe you just want to have your muffin the way you always do for now and then add boost on the side.
Amber B 24:23
It's so good. I would love to talk a little bit about habits and habit formation. Were there any habits specifically that you added? I mean, the boost is a great example. But any habits that you specifically added or ways that you thought about habit formation in this process of learning to count macros, this new skill that you were adding in?
Robyn Conley Downs 24:44
Yeah. So the number one thing about creating a habit is that you have to reduce the friction. So James Clear talks about this. I mean, he did a really good job of making that popular. He did not invent the idea. It will only become a habit if it's as easy as possible. And it's really difficult to add a bunch of new habits at once. So I like people to think about that when they're starting to macro count. I think you've talked about this. Just the tracking is a habit. Not even changing any of your other behavior, not changing what you're eating, not changing feeding your family, not adding steps, not starting to strengthen. Just getting the tracker out is a habit. And now, does anyone want to hear that? No.
Amber B 25:31
I can tell you, I did a whole tracking challenge a couple months ago. And it was like pulling teeth because I was just telling people, we're just going to track. And they're like, we're not going to hit anything. We're not going to set up. I'm like, no, no, we're just going to track. And it was like, I had to convince them that this was a good idea.
Robyn Conley Downs 25:46
Just listen to Amber. She's always right.
Amber B 25:48
And then they came back and they were like, oh, that was really good. And I'm like, I know I told you. But yeah, tracking is a skill. It's a habit.
Robyn Conley Downs 25:57
It is a habit. And it's one of those habits that actually becomes much easier once you've done it for a month because you have it all in your tracker. So I do know that this is not ever, I don't think anyone's going to ever listen to me on this point. But when you're trying to make a lifestyle change and you're really adding seven new habits, it's you're not the problem. You're not failing when that doesn't work. That was too many things to do all at one time, like almost to the point of impossible. And I think we almost like to just, it's easier to blame ourselves and to just say, wait a minute, let's take a step back and let's layer this. But macro, if you're going to break it down in terms of the number of habits you're starting, especially, I don't know if this airing in the new year, but how many of you have decided that you're going to track macros, follow a totally perfect macro balanced diet. And now you're also strength training and you're also getting 10,000 steps. And also you're going to drink all your water and you're going to be in bed by 10 PM and you cut out alcohol and probably no caffeine or whatever. We're not drinking caffeine on an empty stomach, whatever else is going on. That's a lot of habits. It's really, really hard to do. And almost, I'm just going to say like almost impossible to adopt all of those at once.
Amber B 27:14
Yeah. Agree. Yeah. And then like you said, then the problem is you then blame yourself as the problem when the problem was you just approached it in a totally unsustainable way. And then people throw their hands up and they're like, well, New Year's resolutions don't work. And you're like, well, that's because you had 15.
Robyn Conley Downs 27:29
Right. Because none of them had time to actually become a habit. Because the definition of a habit is just a behavior that becomes automatic that you don't have to think about. That's the beauty of habits is then you can layer on because it's not so much effort. But I do encourage you to just, I know no one wants to hear that. So maybe no one's going to like hearing that. But even if you just give yourself that grace, the compassion to say, I have asked a lot of myself and like, maybe all of these aren't going to happen all at once. Like, is there anything I can nail down first before I layer on the next thing?
Amber B 28:02
That's really good. What is your relationship with tracking now? As you're two years in, you've probably learned a lot about nutrition and food and you're balancing your blood sugar and all these things. So what is that relationship like now?
Robyn Conley Downs 28:15
I have found really great success just tracking protein. And I do wish that, I feel like this might be a future for some of the calculators. I think you have a relationship with one of them. Maybe you can request it. But what I would love to have is when you can graduate to just tracking protein and fiber and then hide everything else. Because I think that would be a great inroad for some people too. I really think that some people could start there and then graduate to full macro counting, or they could go through macro counting and then in maintenance, or I guess maintenance, graduate to just pick the ones they want to see. So I like to see protein and fiber if possible. And then I feel like I kind of know, you start to know. You can't track without getting the information. So that's where I am. And then if I have a reason to go back to macro counting, not just a cut, but more around energy or lifting where I'm like, I can't get past this lift. Why? Oh wait, maybe I need to change my calories or something. But that's definitely my relationship with it now. It's very much just protein focused and fiber also, because that's one that just so… Over 40, everyone needs protein or everyone needs fiber, but it's just so easy to not get enough. So those are kind of what I pay attention to.
Amber B 29:45
I'm curious a little bit about your recipe creation process, or you started a blog back in 2012. What that regression has looked like for you as you've created recipes. Do you lean more high protein now than you used to? Or I'm just curious how your evolution has changed the content that you put out.
Robyn Conley Downs 30:04
Yes. So I actually, I don't know. I think I did a lot of Whole30 related kind of stuff back when that was just kind of whatever you had to do. The nice thing about those recipes is that they were inherently high protein at the time and didn't rely… I think they actually were kind of macro balanced, if not a little low carb for me anyway. But I think I naturally started just thinking about building a recipe around fiber, fat and protein. That's something I've been doing for years and years and years. And didn't think about it in terms of macro balance per se. And then now I would say the last two years, almost every recipe I do is thinking about at least 20 grams of protein per serving. I do all family friendly recipes. So I am always… Whether they're “balanced” is really hard for me to say because it really does depend on your… I think sometimes people come to me and they're like, it's not macro balanced. I'm like, well, you're talking about it being really low carbon, really low calorie. And for me, that's not going to work for my whole family. So I do try to think about it. But I also try to think about ease. I try to think about dishes. I try to think about shortcuts. And then I have… I don't know, but toddler years were even easier for me to get my kid to eat. Teenage years, she's way more… I'm going to call it selective. But if she doesn't eat it, which is a lot of the stuff I test, then I know I'm not going to try to put this out to the general public.
Amber B 31:40
Oh, bless it. I agree with that 100%. It's like my teenagers are worse than my toddlers were. I just sat here and made this whole thing and they're all like… And then almost the worst, like they're at the point where they can make their own food. And so then that's what they just go do is they just go make their own food.
Robyn Conley Downs 31:57
And I'm always testing. She's like, can we just have something regular for once? And I'm like, I don't know what you mean by that. She meant the same because I never really make the same thing.
Amber B 32:05
Oh, it's new. It's always different.
Robyn Conley Downs 32:06
It is always new. But the nice thing is when you build it around… Again, for me, it's always that place of protein. Then I know that my husband and my daughter are getting… They're also getting a more macro balanced meal or balanced meal without them having to really think about it. And I think for especially teens, she's in sports. And so I just kind of feel good that she's getting some proper nutrition. And then we have a lot of conversations about it in a very, I think, very proactive, healthy way where she understands why is mommy always talking about protein? Because it helps our brain. It helps our bodies. I can't go to the gym if I'm not getting enough protein. I feel way too tired. So I think that didn't answer your question. I think I said a lot of other things that didn't quite answer it, but I do try to think about protein when I'm building a recipe.
Amber B 33:01
And I was going to ask you about how you counting macros has influenced your partner, your kid. And I always see when a woman changes something, oftentimes that gets passed down to their spouse or their kid. And what has that looked like for you?
Robyn Conley Downs 33:18
I think this is what I wanted to say about it. Another layer that sometimes is really tricky is when you decide to change something for yourself, that immediate pressure that you have to do it for everyone else in your family. And I think especially in partnerships, whether you're living with a best friend, a roommate, a spouse, it's like, oh, well, we're both counting macros. But I do find that that typically falls to the primary mom parent, that now I'm responsible for my macros and my husband's macros. And that's another layer. So just be aware that if you're starting your own macro journey, it's going to make it a lot more difficult if you are now in charge of someone else's macros as well. So I luckily did not find myself in that situation. I was like, I'm doing this for myself. If you want to also do it, awesome. I will make sure we're hitting dinner, but you're going to also be responsible for yourself with breakfast and lunch and your snacks. I will put it on the list. We'll go grocery shopping together. So that's one aspect of that is I'm like, here's what I can be responsible for in the family, but everyone needs to also contribute if that's something that they want to do. But it's been great in that of course, my spouse, he's in his 50s. It's been super helpful for him to revisit how much protein he's getting and very much helped him go, oh, you know what? I thought I was getting protein at breakfast and I was only eating one egg or things like that. And then my teenager, same thing. It's been great for her as an athlete to approach food through the lens of, is this supporting me and my goals rather than a restrictive thing.
Amber B 35:18
Yeah. How do you feel like your relationship with food has evolved over time? Is that something that you ever felt that you struggled with? Is that something that's gotten better or worse or just kind of what is your relationship with food now versus several, a decade ago?
Robyn Conley Downs 35:34
I think that the data of macro counting has been a really positive thing. When I look at it that way, it feels very empowering to me because I don't have to do it. I don't have to have every day be balanced. I don't have to have every meal be balanced, but it helps me connect with how I want to feel. And so if I can see the connection between the choices I'm making and how I feel, and if those things are in the trajectory of where I want them to go, then I can say that's great. And if they're not, I have something that I can tweak, which I feel like is so empowering. It feels like for me, it was such a missing piece. And I thought, I mean, this is maybe a little over the top, but it feels like a tragedy to me that we don't know this across the board and that when people are introduced to it, they're so ingrained in diet culture that a lot of times they can't see it for what it is. Yeah.
Amber B 36:40
Yes. Oh my gosh. I could talk forever about this, of how people bring that dieting perspective and the diets that they've been on, they bring it into macro counting and then they just make it into a diet.
Robyn Conley Downs 36:52
Yeah. And it's, I can see why. And I think that there's a lot of macro coaches online that are just teaching it as, you know, you set someone's macros at 1200 calories, like that's no different than a diet or a thousand or whatever it is. But it doesn't have to be that way. And I do think for some people, like just counting is just triggering, no matter that, like, if you have a serious history of an ED, then that's probably not a great choice. But, but I think if you can look at it, it's just an empowering way to see, document what's, what's going on and then connect that to your goals, connect that to how you want to feel. It's so great. Cause you're like, oh, I get to decide, do I want to have, just eat this donut this morning and white knuckle it with coffee? Maybe I do, but we all, we can see the connection to that, to how I feel later in the next day. And, um, oh gosh, the most, the biggest bummer is I'm not a big drinker. Um, but I do drink. Man, that is such a bummer when you really like connect those things. You're like, dang it.
Amber B 37:57
Now you have to drink with your eyes wide open.
Robyn Conley Downs 37:59
It's so bad and it's not, but it's not judgmental. And it's not like I shouldn't drink because drinking is da da da, it's just more like when you have it tracked, you go, oh, I see what I did there. And then see how I feel today. And it's not a, you would think that wouldn't be a surprise, but it's been very, again, very empowering where I go, oh, well, you know, I do want to have this beer at lunch today. Cause I just, this is something fun that we like to do. Not our, not our whole family, obviously, but the adults. Um, and, and this is going to have consequence, but like, that's a trade-off and I'm willing to make it. Or I stopped drinking. I used to drink like two drinks on Friday night and then like one to three on Saturday. And I just cut out Friday because it was just consistently so obvious how not supportive of my goals for the trade-off. It was very easy for me to say, you know what, that's not, it's not doing, that's not doing it. But it wasn't because I was trying to force myself to not do it. It was very much every time I go, how did that thing, how did that make me feel? Oh, not great. Was that worth like sitting on the couch and having a glass of wine? Actually not, it was not actually worth it. So I feel like that piece is just so empowering if you can think about it that way.
Amber B 39:19
So good. And you said something so key. You said the decision was easy for me. And I think that's, that's the defining thing is like, when you are making it from that perspective of, I have full control. I can choose. I can own the consequences. If I want to do this, I can do it. And if I don't want to do it, I don't have to do it. Right. It's just that freedom that you feel. And because of that, because of how you're making the decision, it becomes easy for you to make the decision versus like sitting there fighting with yourself or going back and forth with this part of me wants to do it and this part of me says no.
Robyn Conley Downs 39:50
Yes. And then you're like, I'm the worst because I did it. Oh, I'm such a failure. And it's easy, but also, like I said, total bummer because I did like, I like the ritual of it and, you know, signaling. I work from home. So the signaling. So I did like, I did buy really fancy sodas that my daughter and I know have in special cups because I, that was missing. I was like, I don't want to just have a glass of water. So I still feel like I have a little sadness around the ritual of it, but the actually not doing it was and still maintains easy because I just think I can absolutely have that drink if I want it. And then I remember what that cons quote unquote trade off or whatever the tomorrow, is that worth it to me? Nine out of 10 times it's not. And I just say, okay, I'll like, let's go get our fancy sodas.
Amber B 40:43
Yeah. I mean, you've probably read Charles Duhigg, The Power of Habit,
Robyn Conley Downs 40:48
Yeah.
Amber B 40:49
Because you're a habit girl.
Robyn Conley Downs 40:49
I had him on my podcast.
Amber B 40:51
Did you? That's fantastic. But, you know, he talks about the cue, the routine and the reward. And, you know, basically did was, was replaced that with something that also gave you the same reward, right? He talks about, you want to keep the cue, you want to keep the reward, but you want to change the routine. And for you, it's like, instead of the alcohol, now we have like this fancy, you know, fancy drink that replaces the routine and gives you the same reward.
Robyn Conley Downs 41:15
Yeah. Yeah. And again, like the macro accounting can be viewed through that lens is how can I use this information to make empowered choices that are up to what I want for my life and how I want to feel in my life.
Amber B 41:31
That's so good. Okay. Closing question for you. If someone is listening to this and they're saying, okay, I want to try to, try to do this. I want to try and start counting macros. I want to do what she says about like layering habits and taking it small. What advice would you have for where they should start? Like, where is a starting place for somebody?
Robyn Conley Downs 41:55
I am always like, if you want a full meal deal, go talk to Amber. Amber's got what you need. If someone's coming to me, cause I'm not, I am like all about sporting around habits and protein in particular, but not full blown macros. I do think, again, please put in a good word on this, on this request. I would love to see macro calculators give us just a protein option.
Amber B 42:21
Let's talk to Jacob about that with MacrosFirst.
Robyn Conley Downs 42:23
I think you could, you could mark it as like an intro or a, or a maintenance option because some people just need an inroad. And I'm always, one of the things that I taught in my book was like, we have three main things, mindset things that keep us from forming habits. Perfectionism, all or nothing thinking, and comparison. That's the trifecta, that's the striving mindset. And then there's three antidotes to those. But all or nothing thinking is really, really detrimental to us because we think it has to be all or nothing. I continue to think about how can we make, I call it the third way. If there's two ends of the extreme, ask yourself, what's a third option? It works a lot of the time. You're like, wait a minute, there is another option. Macros is tough because there really is not a total middle option. So I really like the idea of just starting with counting one thing. If you can do it in a way, because it will get you to use a tracker, it will help you start paying attention to what you're doing. It will, if you can kind of try to ignore the calories, it will eliminate that. If that's an initial trigger or judgment for you, because it's not so tied to weight for women, I think. So that would be, it's not a perfect tool yet, but it is something I really like to have people think about. It would be like, what if you just tracked one thing? And then you would get the habit of tracking, you would get a knowledge of you and what you're doing and your choices that you're making. And then it allows you to try to think about like, what would be one, what's my next layer? And it would help you to start thinking about those habits as layers versus like setting yourself up for an all or nothing situation that might be really difficult to maintain. If you already have a very responsibility late in life, like you're already trying to do all these things, this is a lot to add. So it's like one of my first suggestions for people.
Amber B 44:26
It's fantastic and freaking tasty. I love it. Okay, Robyn, where are people going to find you? What kind of resources do you have that will be supportive for people listening to the podcast?
Robyn Conley Downs 44:34
You can find me on realfoodwholelife.com. So if you kind of type any of those into the internet.
Amber B 44:40
Those words around.
Robyn Conley Downs 44:41
Those words. I have over 500 fresh, family-friendly recipes on my website, really big focus on slow cooker and casserole, one pan, protein forward. Maybe someday I'll get everything entered into the calculators. That's a great goal. It's not the case now, but you can definitely find pretty much everything I'm doing is protein forward with a few exceptions. But you could start with, if you do slow cooker recipes, you can start with… Our fan favorite right now is a slow cooker beef ramen that is one pot, no chop, family-friendly, high protein, super, super popular in the protein community. So I would start there. And then I also have a slow cooker high protein, slow cooker protein prep on there, a bunch of resources. And then on Instagram at realfoodwholelife, which by the time this comes out, it'll be a full protein channel because that is something that just my audience needs so much help with. And I'm happy to be that middle ground. So if you're maybe not quite ready for the full macro thing, or you're already doing it, you just want some little bonus ideas, that's what I'm doing over there.
Amber B 45:56
I love it. Okay. And we will link all of that up in the show notes so that you guys can go and check out all of the resources that Robyn has. It's fantastic. Well, thank you for so much for coming in, pouring into my audience and sharing your story. It's just really fun to get to connect with you.
Robyn Conley Downs 46:10
Oh, thanks for having me and for everything. You're so generous to put the podcast out and the resources that you put out and it's made a difference in my life. So I really appreciate it. I know that you put everything out on the internet. It's rare to actually…
Amber B 46:28
You just cross your fingers and hope and hope.
Robyn Conley Downs 46:29
Just talking to a computer and a phone, but we really appreciate you and thanks for everything.
Amber B 46:38
Oh, it's awesome here. Thanks so much.
The whole time that Robyn was talking, I was just nodding my head and thinking out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, this is what people need to hear is I feel like sometimes I preach these things over and over. And sometimes it's just nice to have other people reinforce what you're saying and to hear it from somebody else. Hopefully some of the things that she said, maybe you've heard me say before, but to hear it from somebody else in a different perspective, I just really… I've been sitting here nodding the whole time that she's saying yes, with small habits. Yes, with making the change small. Yes, with starting out gathering the data before making any changes. I know that these are hard sells. Yes, with reverse dieting. Again, I know they're hard sells, but there is such power in really approaching this as a sustainable lifestyle, as not a quick fix, as not a diet, as not something that you're going to lose 20 pounds in three weeks, but that you're really committing to a healthy lifestyle long-term and you want to do it the right way. And when you want to do it the right way, I'm your girl. I got you.
So I welcome you to come and join us inside of MACROS 101. If you want to get on the interest list, head to bicepsafterbabies.com/waitlist. And then you'll be the first to know when we open doors to MACROS 101, where we talk about all this and more about how to make macro counting work for you and your lifestyle. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber. Now go out and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything.
Outro
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