331: Diet Breaks, Nutrition Periodization, and Staying Lean with Cody McBroom

Introduction 

You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio Episode 331.

Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PR's. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife and mom of four. Each week my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in. Now, let's jump into today's episode.

Hey, hey, hey! Welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke and today on the podcast I had the pleasure of interviewing Cody Mcbroom and we covered the whole gamut today. Guys, I'm really excited for you to listen to this podcast. We talked about how to develop willpower, how to develop discipline. We talked about diet breaks and refeeds and how and when to implement those into your journey. We talked about how to structure flexibility, the skill of maintaining without tracking, and so, so much more. So I'm really excited to dive into this interview with Cody Mcbroom.  

Amber B 01:26 

All right, I am so excited to welcome Cody to the podcast. Cody, thanks for being here. 

Cody McBroom 01:32 

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk again. This is cool. We're getting to know each other really well now. 

Amber B 01:37 

That's right. Yeah, we. So I was interviewed for his podcast yesterday. I'm interviewing him for my podcast today, this is like the first time that we've met too. And so we're finally making some connections and it's been, it's been really fun to drive together. So I'm excited for my audience to get to know you a little bit better as well. So just kind of do a little short introduction. Tell us a little bit about you. What do you do? How did you get into fitness coaching? 

Cody McBroom 02:00 

Yeah, I'll try to, try. I'll try my best to to keep it somewhat brief. So I I grew up, I was never obese or or superably, but I grew up the chubby kid in the group and I was kind of like a black sheep in my family as well, because nobody in my family is overweight at all. It was just me and I'm opposite in many ways outside of just that too. And so I didn't really have a a good introduction to fitness or health or anything. My family played sports but didn't really. I don't know. I know we talked about this a little bit. I wasn't. I didn't see that around me very much. Right. And so, I grew up that way. And and, you know, once you get into high school, you start being a little bit more insecure because you actually want to attract women and you start, you know, getting made fun of by friends. And as a guy, that's a normal thing in your circle and you kind of just brush it off, but it it it wears on you after a while, you know, and so by the time I graduated high school, I had been playing soccer and lost a lot of weight, had an ACL tear, gained weight back, lost a little bit of it, recovered, started playing soccer game tournament, discus gained more weight.  

Amber B 03:06 

Oh gosh. 

Cody McBroom 03:07 

Yeah, graduated high school and I was at my heaviest and I was going to Community College and I had some friends going off to play ball and college stuff and I just kind of lost. I didn't get good good grades in school. I was very social. I like school, but I just was terrible when it came to books, assignments, paying attention in class, that kind of stuff and I had no direction. I had no motivation. I was overweight and I was just kind of stuck and I finally decided to go to the gym and change that because I wanted to at least like the body I was in, you know, and that led to me starting to train and getting interested in losing weight. And I met this guy who changed my life and I was an ignorant 18-year-old in Community College. I kind of ignored him because he offered help in the gym and he ran the PT department at the school. He was just like an old guy. He didn't look super in shape and thinking of it, come to find that he was a really well-known strength coach. He worked with a lot of Olympic athletes, he worked with I believe it was the Buccaneers way back in Summer Olympic swimmers and knew everybody that I needed to know. And this is over a decade ago. It must  have been 2010, 2011, so he was like an OG strength coach, you know, before social media, all that. And I gravitated towards him. I I took him up on his offer to step in his class because I skipped my class one day because I just didn't, I couldn't sit still. I didn't like what was going. I was walking back to my car and I snuck into his class. There was a picture of a baby on a the the screen, and they were dissecting the movement pattern of a baby crawling in a quadruped position. And there's all these lines and they were talking about these contralateral patterns and the class was called functional training 101, functional movement 101. Sorry. And I just remember being like this is the coolest thing ever.  

So I sat through the whole class and I told my parents, I'm gonna switch my degree. I'm going to get into training to do this and understand when they said no. I was still overweight, wasn't really serious by anything and so I forged my dad's signature to change my degree and start my my training journey, months and months later he found out, but at that point I had lost much weight. So Long story short, I ended up losing 45 to 50 lbs. Falling in love with training, got an internship and started working for free. Which then became a job. So I was going to school, working at Rite Aid Pharmacy and working as an intern strength coach, which became my full-time job and and it just kind of snowballed. I started a blog and I was writing content, but social media wasn't really big then and I had this, this vision. In this dream I remember interviewing for the internship and I said I want to have a fitness website. I'm going to travel and I'm going to, you know, do fitness stuff. And his response, Luca was the guy that owned the gym, was called Bigger Ground in Seattle. Really well known gym out here. And he said, how are you gonna make money? Like I have no idea. I know there's people who do it, so I'm just figure out and he said train people for five to six years in person. Then you have the right to have a website and and do stuff like that and that's what I did. I train people as one of the head coach there for 6 1/2 years, six days a week and at a certain point my girlfriend at that time, wife now. I know she was pregnant and I was like, this is my my chance. I gave up every single one of my clients, to leave the gym respectively, and started with $0.00 and from scratch and and I started building the online business which grew and now we serve people everywhere around the world. We have 10 coaches on staff, a chief science officer. We hire a lot of people from media stuff and it's, it's my dream, you know, and it's it's become real over the the course of it's been 7 years now we've been in business.  

Amber B 06:35 

So awesome. 

Cody McBroom 06:36 

So really cool. But that's what I do now. I'm a coach/founder of a coaching company. I'm a content creator like you and I get to do this every day. 

Amber B 06:44 

So fun and so like obviously the the lifting was kind of your entry into the fitness world. How did the nutrition come about or when, when did you realize how big of a deal that was or how important that was for your clients? 

Cody McBroom 06:57 

Yeah. So as you can imagine, anything works when you first start, you know. And so when I first started, I went from not training and eating like crap to training, and I started losing some weight. And, you know, it's funny. Looking back, I realized I put myself in a calorie deficit because I would start. I started. I was like, you know, I'm gonna start eating healthy cereal. So I got like 1% to 2% milk and I got Special K If you remember that that makes the thing. 

Amber B 07:24 

They still make it. That's still. That's still in the shelf. 

Cody McBroom 07:24 

I don't know. And you and you read it and it's like healthy, low fat and you're like, that's what I gotta do. 

Amber B 07:30 

That's it. 

Cody McBroom 07:31 

And so that's what help me lose weight. Diet soda into the regular soda like, you know, you're 18 when you start. And so I was doing that and training. And you get to a certain point where you can't just keep expecting to get leaner, anything like that. And so I ended up signing up for a physique competition and I did my own training and this guy came in and gave me a diet plan. I would never diet that somebody today the way he dieted me because it was very bodybuilder, bro, here's your meal plan. You only can eat this list of foods. 

Amber B 08:01 

Yeah. 

Cody McBroom 08:02 

And his adjustments are not. We're going to reduce 5% of calories and do this list. It was take 1/4 cup of oats out, I'm like OK, you know, and that was it and I got shredded, got on stage and worst decision I could have made I had a cruise booked the next day,  

Amber B 08:17 

Oh no. 

Cody McBroom 08:18 

So yeah, I I did a a physique competition and then I got home, did a photo shoot and then left on a cruise to Mexico and drank and ate that six pack away real quick and that really, really got to me. Because I had worked so hard and my 6 pack was gone like this, I looked worse than when I started. I didn't want to look at the mirrors and the way myself and naturally, what a lot of people do especially, you know, I was still in my early 20s just starting my career. I just started going right back to what I was doing to cardio dieting, started losing weight again, and I felt terrible. So, that is actually what led me to it, because I started researching stuff and I found Layne Norton talking about metabolic damage at the time we call it adaptation now and it's not as scary as we once thought it was, but he was just in this lawn chair, sitting by his pool in the backyard talking about this stuff. And then Eric Helms with the muscle strength pyramids. And I just started reading and learning and that got me so intrigued that I went, got certified and I started implementing nutrition with my clients and I was the only guy in this gym and it's a really successful gym. But all my clients we're crushing it. All my clients were losing weight and it was started counting, catching buzz and it was just solely because I implemented nutrition with my clients and I didn't charge an extra. I was just like hey, let's do this and that got me hooked. So, then I just kept going down the route and then I went and became a an actual credential nutritionist and then later a sports nutritionist. And that's the bulk of our our company now I would say is nutrition. We do a lot of training as well and I love training. It's what got me into this. But as you can attest, you, you implement nutrition to an already sound training plan or somebody's committed to gym. Oh my gosh, the results just. Yeah. So that's what really got me hooked, it is my own battle suit. 

Amber B 10:03 

That's awesome. That's fantastic. I've heard you say before. If you're not tracking, you're guessing. How many of your clients resist tracking and how do you address that resistance to someone who maybe is listening as if it has a resistance to tracking, either their food or their workouts? 

Cody McBroom 10:21 

Yeah, such a good question. And it's, you know, it's funny. Posts like that was kind of trigger some people, you know and. 

Amber B 10:28 

Ruffles of feathers. 

Cody McBroom 10:21 

Yeah, and it's, it's especially when they read that and they don't read the caption and which I'm sure you get sometimes too.  

Amber B 10:35 

Oh yeah. 

Cody McBroom 10:36 

And and so as I kind of alluded to in the caption as well. I don't always think every person needs to track macros, needs to track all their food, measure everything you know. So I think there's levels of tracking and what is important is that you have some kind of metrics you are paying attention to and this is really well researched. If you're not tracking something, if you're not measuring progress, right, what doesn't get measured doesn't get managed. You're just not going to move forward and it's the same way. If somebody wants to set up a budget or and finances and investment account or anything, you have to understand where the markets at, where the numbers are at, what the interest rates are at. Otherwise, you're just shooting in the dark. And so that's the first thing I would say is whether it's macros, whether it's just intuitive eating let's say and and I think that's a trained skill in itself, but you're you're measuring your weight every day, you're measuring your measurements. Those are all different metrics that you need to track, and that's like the the main thing I like to drive home. I think that the biggest resistance we have gotten over the years is definitely macros and then sometimes weight. There's a lot of people who avoid the scale and I know you know this too. And you know, it's like, and this is a really good book, but the obstacle is the way you know, if you don't weigh yourself, it's going to continue to be this, like, daunting, fearful thing, whereas the only way to overcome that is probably actually to weigh yourself more, understand what it is as the tool. And oftentimes I would say that's the same thing with macros, you know, macros. If you understand what purpose they serve as a tool, it can actually help you be more intuitive with your diet later on.  

Amber B 12:09 

Yes. 

Cody McBroom 12:10 

But to have the intuition to fuel your body the way you're supposed to, also means that your logical brain can probably overpower your emotional brain in some of those scenarios, and that's just not the case for most humans. You know, we have to train that ability in certain categories of life. I can do that with food. I probably can't do that in certain areas that I'm not well skilled at because I haven't trained myself to understand how to be intuitive there. At that point, you know, I think that I would love to say that we have tons of people who come to us that are super resistant and we have to overcome the hurdle we definitely do at times. But I also think this is the power of you know, you might actually be able to speak this too. I think this is the power of of delivering really helpful content and being very authentic in your content because I talk a lot about macros. I talk a lot about the different ways to measure and use metrics. I talk about how it doesn't need to become obsessive. It doesn't need to be this tedious thing. And if you teach people for free through content, usually they come on board and they're like. I'm sold. I'm ready. Let's get into it. 

Amber B 13:13 

Yep. 

Cody McBroom 13:14 

And and I think the the best way to do that and and they will answer this question is kind of showing them the whole picture. You know, I think there's a lot of coaches out there that will sign up the client and just give them numbers and they don't explain and this client is like, OK, why are the numbers this way? How long am I dieting for? When do I stop dieting? And it's like, if somebody were to tell you, hey, we're going to go down this dark path. Just come along with me.  

Amber B 13:41 

Just call me. 

Cody McBroom 13:42 

You're like, where does it go? Yeah, don't worry about where it goes. Don't worry about how long it will take to get there to that side. 

Amber B 13:46 

Yeah. 

Cody McBroom 13:47 

So what we try to do is show them whole map like hey, we're right here. Maybe we don't start with all the macros, we're going to slowly integrate this so we can show you how to measure food, show you how to read food labels, show you how to do these things, a food scale. How do you use that? When is it appropriate to not use it and how do you guesstimate better? What's acceptable, what's a guesstimating? And then as we get more skilled and more compliant. And it's not as much of a daunting thing we can implement, really tracking all the macros which is going to be your GPS to get you to where you want to be, and then we can kind of reverse that process, you know, reverse dieting isn't always just increasing calories, but maybe it's reversing some of the tools you had to use to get there because just like driving, if you drive somewhere enough times, you don't need to use your GPS anymore. I'm gonna use my GPS to get to work. So I'm driving to this office for the last two years. You know, so it's I think that. It's it's a process if that makes sense. 

Amber B 14:37 

Oh, it's so good. And I and I love that you speak to that idea of I think a lot of people do want to be intuitive with their food and this idea of, like, I can just feel my body without having to think about it and not having to track it is very is very a lot of women want to get to. But I think you make such a good point that having people who are making decisions from a subconscious level who don't know anything about portion sizes, who don't want to think anything from nutrition and leapfrogging them all the way to just we'll just intuitively eat is, is a big ask. And so tracking can become one of those bridges that helps you get to that eventual place, right. I love the analogy of using the GPS for a while until you get familiar enough with it that we can kind of let the GPS go a little bit and get to that more intuitive place. 

Cody McBroom 15:19 

Yeah, you know, it's it's this is actually something, it's a kind of analogy or a story that it's more relative than I’ve thought of lately because I meant a good close friend and mentor of mine is a former Navy SEAL and he put together this thing they did and it was like this trip. There's this retreat, but it was first dads and sons, and they taught them a lot of like, life skills. One of the life skills they had to do out in this. I don't. I don't wanna say was like Montana or something crazy out in this wilderness. That's cool house in the mountains. They had to like actually use a compass and find a location that got dropped off and they have to like track right.  

Amber B 15:51 

Yeah. 

Cody McBroom 15:52 

And if you if if somebody’s listening here thinking about your journey like these people trekking to find this it was like a little flag that they had planted in the woods somewhere, right? How would you get? I don't. I would not know what to do, if somebody gave me a compass and was like, hey, you need to get to this place. You don't have a phone. You don't have a computer, you can't GPS or anything. I'd be like, oh, my God. What am I supposed to like, lick my finger and feel the wind? And you know I don't.  

Amber B 16:12 

Yeah. 

Cody McBroom 16:13 

I don't know what to do and so to your point if you throw somebody into the fire and they don't know how to do the steps to get there, how are they going to find the the actual end goal? And I think that most people see influencers or people online that are preaching the importance of intuitive eating and how great it is, and this is what I do. If you look at their history, a lot of times they were a serious bodybuilder physique athlete that tracked and ate meticulously or whatever. And I think it's important for people to like if you're going to compare, compare the whole story. Look at the past, what did they do to get where they're at. This goes to training too. There's a lot of people who promote training programs that might not be actually, what they did to get there. It's just what they do now that they're already there. So if you're at the beginning stages, you can't just model exactly what somebody who's been doing it for a decade and posting online an influencer does.  

Amber B 17:01 

Yeah.  

Cody McBroom 17:02 

It’s a totally different scenario. 

Amber B 17:03 

Yeah, it's good. And I love the word that you use too when you're talking about it. You said it's a skill and I think what that brings up for me is just, I think sometimes people think, oh either you're just really good at this, or you're really not, and I fall into one of those two categories and I love that what you're breaking it down is like, these are just skills that are learnable, that people can learn. But then you do need to learn that there needs to be a process of learning the skill to be able to get to where it is that you want to go. And and having to coach people to guide you through. Here's the first skill to learn. Here's the next skill to learn. OK now we're on to skill #4 can be really helpful in that process. 

Cody McBroom 17:36 

Yeah, 100% agree. 

Amber B 17:37 

So, I'm really curious because, you know, we kind of talked about this like, OK, step one, you know, we're going to start tracking our food and we're gonna get the nutrition on board and then we're gonna get to reversing, and we're going to let go to tracking and it's we're all going to live happily ever after. And you and I both know that it is not a straight line like that for almost anybody. There are ups and downs. There are twists and turns. There are plateaus. Not a lot of people you know, hit at some point in their journey that it's not a problem, it just is something that is happens for most of us. So what strategies do you use for someone who hits a plateau or somebody who's listening to this is like struggling with, hey, I'm doing all the things, I'm doing the skills, I'm tracking my food, I'm going to the gym and it's not working. And they're getting frustrated. What advice or strategies do you have for them? 

Cody McBroom 18:20 

Yeah, this is such a. It's such a complex question, you know, and I think I'm always going to be the type of coach that leans in with questions like this is how we we go over with our coaches and staff too. It's like we have to lean in with questions so that they can, they kind of, it's like a self-discovery process, right? They're going to reveal the answers of what's actually going on. There's a lot of times that people say they're doing all the things they say, and they're just not, you know. So I I think it, again, when we look at the plateau, it's it's first, let's ask some questions. Let's figure out what the plateau is. Is it actually a plateau? How long have they been at a plateau? I'll get people like it happens less than coaching. I think they're more educated at this point, but I'll get people to comment on stuff all the time. Like, what do you do when you're at a plateau after a week and you need to? I'm like, hey, that's not plateau. 

Amber B 19:05 

Like you're using that wrong, that word wrong. 

Cody McBroom 19:08 

That's not a blood cell. And so looking at all these factors, are they being patient enough, are they being consistent enough, right? How often are they eating out? How flexible with their diet are they being? I'm totally good with flexible dieting. I'm not like big, restrictive guy, but there's also times where somebody has a serious goal they're trying to move forward and they're being so flexible with their diet that they're eating a lot of processed foods, eating a lot of restaurant-based foods which you can fit in the diet. But we have to remember that there, they're very inaccurate when it comes to tracking, so it's like, are you actually in a deficit consistently? Maybe not. Maybe you've been in a deficit and you've lost weight. You hit a plateau and we just need to drop your calories lower. I mean, there's a lot of people that think once you go on a deficit you just keep going. You never just, so it's like,  

Amber B 19:50 

The way home. 

Cody McBroom 19:51 

Yeah, the metabolism is a very adaptive thing. So if it has adapted because of the diet, the cardio, whatever you're doing, we have to make adjustments to push it further, and this is also why periodizing the diet is going to be really help because we can't just keep adjusting lower and lower and lower and lower, or more cardio, more cardio, more you know, it's at a certain point you get to a place where doing too much cardio or you're eating too little calories. So a lot of times again. So we're going to ask questions, figure out what is really going on and try to get them to self-discover it. Even if we really guide them to the answer. Because it's going to be more powerful if they come up with the answer themselves. Internally, they're just going to be more bought in and they're going to understand it better. It's going to click a little bit better. They're not being told what to do, but they're finding the solution through our guidance rather, and once we can do that, we can kind of go through all the check boxes, right? Are they being consistent? Are they measuring and tracking accurately? Sometimes they're simple mistakes. People just, they don't realize they're making. Are they eating out too often or being too flexible with the diet? Is there a a stress present in the diet that we're not aware of? Right. There's a lot of times where people are stuck and start asking questions. And I found out they're going through a divorce. Or they just lost their job or something crazy is happening. It's like, OK, hold on. First of all, is this the right time to diet? Second of all, that's a big stress. Like one, of course, inflammation. You know, stress, cortisol, water, times, stuff like that. But also there can be digestive issues from stress. You could just not really be consistent once you open up about that, you also open up about the things that are sneaking into your diet or the alcohol, whatever it is. And so I think if we're just asking, not even just the right questions you got to ask the right questions, but also asking enough questions. We're going to figure out why they're out of plateau and I would say at least half of the time they're not even actually out of plateau. Something else is going on that we just need to help them fix or learn or get compliant with. And we'll keep moving on.  

Amber B 21:44 

It's really good. How do you help to thread the needle with clients when in terms of consistency, in terms with compliance? This this balance between needing to be consistent and compliant in order to see results without having it trend too far to having to give up all the things that they love or, you know, be too meticulous, that it takes over their life when they're tracking right, that that balance and that needle to thread, how do you help clients to find what, what they're willing to do to get the results that they want? 

Cody McBroom 22:14 

Yeah. So I think of course, initially we're having this discussion about goals and understanding what it's going to take to get there. You know, there's sometimes goals are too lofty. Sometimes people set the bar way too low and we're like, you can do better. Come on. We can push harder. So really, really solidifying a clear goal that is something that actually means a lot to you know, they they have a good why, like they really understand why they're doing it. Not just I want to lose 20 lbs. OK. Why do you want to lose 20 lbs? Well, because that I used to be 20 lbs. OK. Why is that important? Why would you maybe not to, maybe you look that way now, but you're not 20 lbs. What if that happens? I actually did a question like that on a poll and it was shocking how many people actually struggled to answer, they knew what they should to answer. It was like if you could have your dream body, but it was 10 lbs heavier, would you take it and so many people were like, I know I should answer yes. I would take it. But it's hard for me. 

Amber B 23:05 

With that number, man that number. 

Cody McBroom 23:06 

Yeah. So having that discussion, you know, and then really just again why, why, why and and figuring out what it is that matters to them. Because if it's being confident on the beach in a bikini, it's like, OK, that has nothing to do with the number. 

Amber B 23:21 

Yeah. 

Cody McBroom 23:21 

What do you need to feel in order to be confident on the beach bikini? And then it's like, what beach is it? When are we doing it? And what bikini are you wearing? Because I want you to anchor yourself to that goal and really visualize it. So having that conversation up front is going to be helpful. And then as we lay out the journey to get there, making sure they just understand it's crystal clear of like, this is what it's going to take, this is what we got to do each week with training, nutrition, step count, cardio, whatever it may be, and then teaching them what I like to call structured flexibility. So it's there's a level of flexibility that is not just acceptable. But it's probably useful. You should do it because if you don't, you're going to burn out and there's a level of flexibility that is just inaccurate and things are going sneaking in and it will cause more frustration and it's not that hard to just avoid completely every day. You know, we can we can figure out a better way to do this. So teaching them that. And a lot of times one of the things I find because there's really two people, right? There's a person that is maybe being too flexible but eat out a lot. It's a lot to me and stuff, and then there's the person that you have to tell them. Like, hey, if if you weigh out your blueberries and it's 101 grams and you track on it, just don't take out a blueberry. 

Amber B 24:26

Okay. Yeah.

Cody McBroom 24:27 

It's totally fine. Like, that's not a good thing to do. And with those people, I really, this has always worked wonders and it's kind of one of those things that makes them have a light bulb moment and I tell them, OK, chicken breast, 4 oz chicken breast, probably 26 grams of protein, 1 ½, two grams of fat. Do you think every single chicken on the planet is the same? They have different diets. They're in different locations, they have different amount of muscle, they have different amount of fat, they have different diet, like hydration levels, different vitamins and minerals depending on the soil that they're eating off of. And all these different things and they kind of sit down like so there's no way that every chicken breast says 26 grams of protein every brounces. That's just a really, really good like estimation. It's the best one we have. So it works. We're tracking, but if you're being OCD and having a perfectionist attitude with measuring food. You're doing that you're you're stressing about something that is impossible to be perfect with. You will never be 100% accurate,  

Amber B 25:24 

Yeah. 

Cody McBroom 25:25 

And that actually kind of creates some relief in people because they're like, that sounds so silly. But that's so true. Like, so it doesn't matter, because if you were 101 grams or 100 grams. It's the same thing, you know. 

Amber B 25:35 

It's all within margin of error.  

Cody McBroom 25:36 

Exactly.  

Amber B 25:37 

Yeah. And I think, you know for people who are listening to this I I I invite you to kind of think through where you tend to fall in that spectrum because I'm the same way Cody is like there are people that like, have to, like, convince them to take a rest day. Like you really actually need to take a rest day because they'll just be so consistent and work themselves to death or hyper fixate on being perfect with their tracking. And it's like, I'm trying to pull them back a little bit gently of, like, let's introduce a little bit of flexibility, and there's a client on the other end who has excuses for every single thing, and they're letting themselves off the hook all the time, and we need to help them to have a little bit more structure. So if you're listening, like can you self-identify which of those camps do I tend to fall into? Because the solution for them is kind of the opposite, either we need to pull you back or we need to help you be a little bit more consistent. And I think that can be helpful for people to self-identify where they're on on that continuum. 

Cody McBroom 26:26 

Yeah, I agree. And and you know, one of the things actually, oddly enough, I've gotten like some flack for this online. But I've I've often said, like trainers. There's no excuse not to be in shape. You're a trainer, like you're a role model. You should, you know, be a product of what you know and do. And I think this is one of the powers in that because if you're somebody who really walks along, practice what you preach, you're a living proof and your testament of what you're talking about. And that does bleed into your coaching that they're going to trust you more and to steal your words from when we talked and I've heard other people say I love it. It's like, how’s that working out for you? Right. So if somebody is not taking any rest days and you're like, hey, I'm really trying to because we get that to you all the time, right? And it's like, let me just ask you this, before we started working together were you doing this, too? Yeah. OK. How's that working out for you and why did you hire me? Right. Let me do you know, just trust me. Let me do what I do. 

Amber B 27:18 

Let me do my thing. 

Cody McBroom 27:20 

And it'll work out. 

Amber B 27:21 

Yeah. Well, and I will make a point too. When we were talking yesterday, you made such a good distinction between calling it a recovery day versus a rest day, which I thought was just such a brilliant, you know, switching words. It's like, it's not that you're resting, you're actually recovering. It's an active process, like there are things happening on that day and I think that's so important for people to remember who do struggle to take those recovery days. Since you and I both know that the mental aspect of cutting is so vital and it's so important, and to make such a difference, what strategies do you recommend for clients to stay accountable to themselves, to stay consistent, to avoid that like self sabotaging behavior, that sometimes we see happen in our clients? 

Cody McBroom 27:58 

Yeah. You know, I think that there's a, there's a few aspects of this and I think that one of them is initially teaching them that discipline and willpower, their skills that are developed. They're not genetic traits that are given. So even though there's people like David Goggins, who may have more discipline than anybody on the planet. And he had an upbringing that probably instill a lot of them, that it's not in his blood or DNA. Literally, we all have it. And oftentimes I do this all the time and and I can use my wife as a great example and. And she's like, into my English. She's not in the fitness space. She's never been in a fitness or anything like that. And she works out just to stay healthy. But I've been a fitness nut for a long time. Right. And she is even said I don't. And I see this with moms all the time. I just don't have discipline that, like, let me show you some examples of what you do and I'll bring up the parenting skills. She has the reminders that she doesn't even have to set when my daughter, Blakely, needs to take her medicine and she she was born with the kidney thing. So we had plenty of stuff before her surgery when she was four years old. And so, like all these things, I'm like, I can just list all the ways I've seen you display discipline and willpower in attentiveness and all this stuff. It's just that we don't have a goal with fitness and nutrition right now, so there's no reason to apply that and a lot of times this actually helps a lot of people because they they go, oh, wait, you're right. I do have discipline. I just haven't figured out how to translate into this yet. Right.  

And so having that discussion, teaching them how they can be disciplined and be somebody that shows willpower and, you know, research actually shows too, it's actually funny, people who do have a higher level of discipline and willpower. Most of the time they can't prove anything outside of. They just believe that they have discipline, willpower. Those people are literally just like, yeah, I have. I have that. And it usually happens from them act the actions they take and stuff. But knowing that it's like anybody can possess that if they want to. And so we give them a reason to want to and that's going to be a useful skill in life, but it's going to be really useful skilled dieting and being totally transparent with people like hey, there's going to be times when you're dieting, where you're gonna be hungry, you're in a calorie deficit. That's part of it. That's why we don't diet 24/7 year-round so be ready for this and use this as a chance to develop the weapon discipline by rewriting that story in your head, you know, yes, you're hungry, but it's because you're in a deficit accomplishing your goals, and you're a hard worker. You don't need XYZ treat whatever, because that fix is going to give you a dopamine kick. What if you rewrote that story and when you conquer this little, let's say mental struggle or battle or or hunger or whatever it is. When you're struggling, you're like, I just want to give up. If you overcome that, how can you reward yourselves with something outside of food? Because now you're gonna get a dopamine kick from the accomplishment of being discipled. And and showing willpower, which is what a lot of these people who are highly disciplined. Do they have a way of rewarding themselves mentally, of, of feeling accomplishment, from being disciplined and showing willpower, and that gets them almost like addicted to this positive feedback loop. Rather than getting addicted to something that is a sedation that doesn't actually fix your stress. It just makes you feel good in the moment that you regret it later.  

So kind of breaking some of this down, a lot of it just instills self-belief. You know, we we often, we talk about this within our company, our console it's called the self-formation process. So it's like self-transformation and it starts with self-control, displaying self-control and a lot of times we can show them how they have self-control in minor tasks that develop into bigger tasks you come home. It's busy. Things are chaotic, but you see the laundry. You don't want to do it, but you do it anyway. self-control, you're it's going to fit and you want to just yell, but you don't. You calmly address it. Applaud yourself making note of it. And remember, you just showed a lot of self-control. Now we apply that to food and and training, which is going to develop your self-discipline. Self-discipline does produce a lot of self-belief because you're showing yourself through actions that get results that you can do it, which eliminates the self-doubt builds this self-belief and by the time you get to the end of your journey you have self-respect, self-confidence, right which is just a byproduct of actually doing the work and it's this cycle that we call self-formation but we have just really, really hammered that into our people and like showed them these these steps and use these everyday life tasks to to create belief, and oftentimes that is honestly exactly what I feel gets people through some of those moments and helps them get through the diet and and those things because there's a million tricks for hunger or based on science, whether we talk about fiber or protein or water or, you know, eating on a smaller plate. So it fills up more of the plate. There's even color contrast that can change the psychology behind how hungry and full you are after a meal, and it's really fascinating stuff. But I want to tap into, you know, the psychology a little bit more and teach them that they can do it like plain and simple. And I think it's through all these little things over time. 

Amber B 32:50 

Yeah, well, and then, I mean, I love this idea of, like, different context and learning from the different context, pulling from different contexts where you're already successful. But then when somebody feels self confident and have self respect in this context, they also can take it to other contexts, maybe their job, maybe their relationships, maybe their parenting. And that to me is where I get really excited about the progress you're making in your fitness realm. Bleeding out into the other aspects of your life and bringing that confidence with you, you know, some of my favorite stories are like when we have clients who have, you know, gone through the process of a fitness journey and to become so confident that they go in and ask for a race. And, you know, they can, they can show up for themselves in this other context. So I I just love this idea of bringing in these different contexts and and weaving them in together to be able to create the type of person that you want to be. 

Cody McBroom 33:35 

Yeah. It you know, that makes the job so much more fulfilling. It really does in our roles and also to, you know, shining light on that for them just helps them stick with the fitness and nutrition journey that much more when people fully understand how useful going through weight loss transformation, for example, or even a muscle growth, whatever it is like your fitness journey. How influential that is to everything else in your life and they really realize that it clicks it's it becomes a lifestyle. It becomes something that they're all going to have whether they are like going on that gym all time or it's just a little bit doesn't matter. It's a part of your life, you know. 

Amber B 34:10 

Totally, totally true. I want to go back to a word that you used previously and kind of dive into that a little bit with you use the word periodization when it came to your nutrition. So can you kind of explain a little bit what you mean by that term. And then let's dive a little bit into that. 

Cody McBroom 34:22 

Yeah. So you know, if we look at just historically speaking, right periodization was almost solely reserved for sport training. You know Olympic lifting, power lifting and then sport specific strength and conditioning. And it's just the I think like the literal definition would be the scientific planning or or or structure of a long-term training cycle. So it's looking at instead of going hey, I'm doing a workout. What about a training week of workouts and then a training block of a bunch of training weeks and then a a training quarter or phase where you're focusing on one thing, maybe it's approaching muscle growth, maybe it's strength or endurance, whatever. And then looking at a year and how you're putting those together and there's terms, you know, microcycle, macrocycle, mesocycle, things like this. And that's in the training world. You know, it started bleeding into hypertrophy and and spring training a little bit for for body composition changes to be honest, most shows it doesn't do a ton for hypertrophy, it's more about just getting the volume and training hard. So I like to tell people, hey, programming is more important than purification when it comes to building muscle or training, but with diet. It's it's kind of still looking in that long term context and it's just to me it's it's a really. I don't even wouldn't even say scientific necessarily a methodical approach to planning out the phases of your diet. There's different phases, and there's a different, few different ways that I typically explain this and it really depends on the person, the goal and stuff. But overall, the you know what this is that we're talking about is just it's strategic and methodical planning of the diet over long period of time. 

Amber B 35:58 

I love it. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the common misconceptions is that you just go into a cut and you just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut until you reach your goal weight and then everything's perfect and you're just, you just go from there. And I think the more people understand that there are phases, there are different things that we're cycling through maintaining your physique is not the same thing as getting your physique and really just setting them up for success to know that this is going to be a process that has different stages to it can be really helpful for people to kind of wrap their mind around what this is going to take to get to where don't want to go. Will you speak a little bit about the difference between maintaining physique versus attaining a physique, like I feel like so many people have this idea of where they want to get to, and then they get to it and then they don't know what to do next, right? It's like they never thought about, Oh, I never thought was going to get here so I didn't think about what I had to do next to be able to maintain it. 

Cody McBroom 36:49 

Yeah, I you know, I think the, to kind of like link this to the periodization aspect, a lot of times what I find you know and this this goes for cutting and maintaining what is required for one person to cut as well as to maintain it. A lot of times it does depend on their dieting history as well. And so like when I look at even just periodizing diet, the first thing I'm doing is looking at I call them the three dials, but it's, you know, we have intensity. So last time you diet, how hard did you diet? Right. Then it's the dial frequency. How frequently have you dieted over the last year or two, you know, and and obviously, how long ago was that? And then duration. How long is that? Obviously, these dials are different. So if we diet with a lot of intensity, the durations probably gotta be low and the frequency might actually be able to go up. Maybe you diet for six weeks, diet break for three and you do that three times through because that works best for you. Somebody else might take a very small deficit and they're good to diet for six months straight because it's just a long duration, very low frequency, low intensity.  

So I'm looking at these based on what they've done in the past, what worked and also are they ready to diet, you know, then when we go into the actual deficit for the cut, we can really make the right approach and this this also is going to depend on their personality type too, as there's some people that it's a shotgun approach that just works, but they just want it like let's just get it going. They want to go on the deficit, about how you motivate them, but they get bored quick, right. They're going to like, have squirrel brain want to do the next thing I have fallen to this camp many times. My ad will kick in. I want to do the next thing. And that can shoot a lot of people in the foot. So if we go with the slow stable approach for them, because we know that's going to be probably healthier. It's going to preserve hormones better, whatever to be, but they're not going to be able to sustain the duration, just mentally we might need to shift that diet because their personality is the type of a more intensive diet that is shorter duration. And if we got to come back into it after diet break, that's fine. The frequency can be higher. And then when we get to this goal, right, the maintenance period. It you know, I think reverse dieting and metabolic adaptation is such a fascinating field because it's it's really changed a lot as it's been researched more and it doesn't fully capture from a context perspective what we see anecdotally with clients, you know, because I think that if you look at a research study and you're seeing. I feel, oh. That's cool. And you look at who was in the research study. Well, it might be strength training, college. You know students because that's only thing they can get. Yeah. And. And you know what? Like, we have a researcher on staff that we're. He's our chief officer. But he does research as his full-time career as well. It's not easy to find participants. It's not easy to fund. Like, I get it. So I'm not. There's that's not me hitting on it.  

When I have a mom of three who stressed. And she also is. Maybe she's pre menopausal, postmenopausal. She's doing CrossFit. Like it, it's not the same thing. It is totally, you know what I mean? So. But you know, to the point of cutting and and maintaining, I think that a lot of people have this idea where we cut calories. We dropped down once we get to our goal, we're going to increase our calories back to where they were and we're going to sustain the weight that we lost. And the reality is, is that you adapted during that deficit, you know, if you lost 30 lbs, you're 30 lbs less mass, which means you require less energy to just breathe and live and sit there now. I have seen a lot of people do that and recomp along the way because what happens is that they weren't really training for very long or they weren't dieting properly, not getting a protein. And during the reverse they end up building a lot of muscle. Their exercise output goes through the roof. They're naturally stepping more, which is for anybody listening who has seen, like hyper responders where people reverse dying, they get leaner. What's happening is they eat more food and their step count goes through the roof. They're moving more when they talk, they train harder, lift heavier, their output just goes up, which doesn't always reverse these hormonal adaptations that happen during diet. But, but there's also times where those homeowner adaptations aren't severe because it's not somebody you know stepping on stage. And getting that lead. And I think that's where this it's it's such a can of worms, but it's a very like, murky area because there's a lot of physique content and coaches and people that say you gotta when you reverse diet, you gotta crank your calories up right away because you're in a very compromised position.  

But the reality is that everyday person's not getting stage lean right? Like I've dieted just a diet and I've dieted to get on stage and it is totally different, you know, so maybe that person doesn't need to rush the reverse diet so much and mentally it might be better for them to go a little bit slower, right? In some cases, that's not the case, so again, we're looking at the personality trying to figure out what that is. And then usually I tell people most likely where this is going to be is if just for random numbers, your maintenance was 2500 and then you lost 30 lbs. Just be ready for your maintenance to be less than 2500. It might be 2000 and 2200, I don't know, but I don't think there's a a specific number I can give. Because we don't know it's going to be a range, even maintenance is a, it's a moving target. It's never the same. But what we want to do is just get you out of that diet at a pace that gives you more fuel, makes you train harder, makes you feel better, reverses any adaptations that were happening. That's, you know, physically, physiologically and psychologically and then ultimately do it at a pace that allows you to stay consistent, you know, and make it sustainable. And I think that's like, really, and I I fully believe that if if somebody gets, let's say, lifestyle lean like pretty lean but not so lean that we're like, hey, we can't, you know, we can't stay there. They can absolutely sustain it if they do the reverse diet the right way, somebody who gets absolute shredded. It's not gonna happen. 

Amber B 42:37 

Sure. Yeah. Makes sense. You use the term diet break and we've kind of talked about diet breaks. Can you explain that concept for anybody who doesn't understand that or and why it's important and why it can be a valuable tool for some people to be using during their dieting basis. 

Cody McBroom 42:50 

Yeah. So the easiest way that I would look at is there's like a refeed day. There's a multi day refeed and there's a diet break and when we look at a refeed it's typically one day. Historically, it was one day of high carbs that was the typical that is a refeed I would say from a scientific perspective, that is the most beneficial way to do it because you're keeping fats and protein where they're at and you bring carbs up. It's going to be less likely to store fat. It's gonna be more likely to fuel training, reverse any depletion of glycogen from, you know, training hard. It's going to help with recovery and and again it's going to as muscle glycogen. It's the problem can store as in fat at all. However, we know that the most beneficial aspect of these refeeds and diet breaks is just the psychological aspect,  

Amber B 43:33 

Yeah, that's cool. 

Cody McBroom 43:34 

And sometimes that doesn't help people, right? So which I'll get into. So there's this one day refeed a multi day refeed is typically two to three days. You know, it's like, OK, we need to refeed, but maybe it's been a little bit longer. So a single day refeed might be once every one or two weeks, a multi day refeed might be every two to four weeks. A diet break is typically a full week. But you know, I don't know where the cutoff is of like, OK, once you reach, you know, two weeks, it's now a maintenance phase or something. But ultimately it's it's it's just a break from the diet. And if you think about, you know, if anybody has a nine to five job, you go to work Monday through Friday, then you take a break. And if you don't take a break, you're going to burn out quick and you're gonna be less productive and it's the same exact thing. Your consistency and compliance is going to drop off if you don't take a break from the diet. For some people, they need it more frequently than others, depending on their personality, depending on their lifestyle, their stresses, as well as how intense the diet is. Right. And I think in also environment stuff, I was hoping this all the time don't compare your situation in mine.  

I have a gym where my office is located and I literally do this for a living. So I have the most accountability in the world and I can't miss the gym. I walk 2 feet out of my office and it's right there like it's just, you know, so lifestyle factors, is your lifestyle set up for this? How often do we need to step away from diet and and I think, you know, most research has been done on this over the last couple of years, showing that the biggest benefit is the psychological right. We used to think it was more physiological. Maybe we're reversing this metabolic adaptation of hormonal adaptation, and I think the best way to describe it is more like it's just a pause. But we're putting a pause on it. It's not reversing. Maybe it's reversing a little bit, but it's not reversing enough to where it's going to stop. You know, it's just putting a pause on it, which may help in the diet, but usually it also means that you got to diet more weeks because you're taking time worth of the deficit. So I think the best thing for people to remember is it, it's just a mental break. So if you need one day, two days, you need seven days. That's something to discuss with the coach. Something to look at your, you know, do you have vacations coming up? Anything like that you can plan it with. It doesn't need to be just carbs. You can just hit your calories and protein and then just have more calories, you know? And then as you get more skilled at dieting and and controlling yourself and having willpower and discipline stuff, I I can't remember the last time during that I took a refeed and tracked it because for me it's, it's the thing that helps me is not using MyFitnessPal, right if I don't use MyFitnessPal, that's like a mental break for me, right? A mental break for me from work is not opening my laptop. It's the same thing. So I might not even eat as many calories as I needed to on that day. But the fact that I didn't track, I don't know how many calories I ate. And I didn't have to worry about it and that's what I care about most, so in general, it's just this compliance tool more than anything. You know, we can see research showing that if you do it with high carb, you're gonna have better muscular endurance. You're probably going to accumulate more volume there. There's other people say you should pair ad load week with your refeed week, which makes sense as well. You know, going back to the recovery days aspect, but all in all it's just how, how, how is this going to help us most and that's going to help you stay consistent with the diet long term. 

Amber B 46:41 

Long term, so good. Yeah, it's so helpful. You talked about lifestyle lean previously and you know how we probably can't stay shredded year round, we're not getting stage lean year round, but the idea of like lifestyle lean. So if somebody is there or wanting to be there, what are some of your tips for staying lean year-round without sacrificing you know your health, your metabolic health and. And maybe even like being able to find that balance with living life while maintaining the aesthetic that you want to maintain. 

Cody McBroom 47:12 

Yeah. So honestly, I think I'm a I'm not used to myself as an example, but I'm probably a really good example to use, so I have to put anybody else on the spotlight, but I have plenty of clients are similar and for me, you know, was not genetically gifted. So I grew up chubby, so that wasn't in my favor. So I had to really work hard to get lean and stay lean. But if we look at people who stay lean year round, they do a lot of the same things, right they typically walk a lot. Right. So whether they're doing formal cardio, they're going on hikes, that they're active, right? They lift weights. Usually they track their diet, but not always, but they eat a high protein diet. They mostly eat Whole Foods and they practice delayed gratification. They're just patient. They understand it's not gonna happen overnight. And so if we just look at that, it's like, OK, I can enjoy my life and do things if I'm also willing to go on a couple of walks every day or have some active hobbies and I'm going to continue to going to the gym and being productive in the gym, you know, four days a week. I'm going to track my diet most of the time or I'm just going to follow like what I if I eat most the same foods everyday. You only got to buy fit every single day. You know you eat the same stuff, you're eating a high protein whole food diet most of the time and that's generally like I so like even for myself, I'm 179 lbs this morning I'm I'm in a deficit right now. I I was trying to gain 4 hours up to like 186 is that like my peak highest weight when I got on stage, I was 159 lbs. Like, that's a big difference. Yeah, you know, and getting on stage, you always like I've been on stage twice and I do this both times. But it's like. I lose like 15 lbs. No, you keep going.  

Amber B 48:54 

Yeah, you lose four. 

Cody McBroom 48:55 

You can get way later. Yeah. And so. But like seeing that contrast, I can see like, OK, you know, the last six weeks I couldn't do like I couldn't go out and eat that. It was very, very strict. It's in a very extreme. Goal we don't. We don't the Coach Zander, to be honest, like every once in a while o or something. That's our main thing and you don't need to go that far in order to stay lifestyle lean. You know you have to walk a lot. You got to train hard. You you should probably eat mostly Whole Foods most of the time, and then you can do some like me and my wife are big wine people and I love doing fancy charcuterie boards like, I love the process of finding nice cheeses and doing little thing people all time. How do you stay lean? You have this massive charcuterie board threat every weekend. And it's like, well, I know I need to eat a certain amount of calories while I'm tracking or not throughout the week to afford that. I'm very active. I lift weights frequently, and I take them body like I just do all these things. And I wasn't expecting to do this right away when I got lean and I wasn't expecting that this is going to get me leaner, you know, during the process of getting leaner, you might have to pull back on the the wine and meats and stuff for a little bit. But. Yeah. I mean it's I think it's really simple stuff. I often say it's stacking the 1%. You know these little 1% items that by themselves aren't you know, they're not magic, they're not these crazy things. But when you stack enough of them, you improve everything by 25 to 50%. 

Amber B 50:13 

Yeah. Totally agree. I I love the idea too that you brought in earlier when you were talking about we have to look. We were looking at someone as an example. We have to look at the whole context and the whole history. And I think that there is something to be said for training the age. There is something to be said for someone who's tracked for a really long time that they don't have to be meticulous that there is more metabolic flexibility that you develop over time. The more muscle you have, the more active you are, and I think sometimes people you you take out of context and you just think ohh well like I should be able to eat a charcuterie board every single weekend and have wine. Why can't I do that? I you know something that's wrong. It's like you all look at the whole picture of, like, where this person came from and how long they've been doing it to be able to earn that you know ability. 

Cody McBroom 50:55 

I learned this lesson when I was actually I wasn't interning before, but I was really young. I'll never forget. I think I was treated like three years and I all the guys at the gym I trained with training this training crew every single one of them at the time was, at least I think the youngest was like 32 and I was 20 Maybe, yeah, I think I was 20 years old, and I remember being more consistent than them throughout the week with everything. It was more dialed in, meticulous and I would get frustrated. And I never forget one day the guy on the gym, Big Jack Sylvanian dude, looked at me. He was like, how long you been lifting for, three years, and he's like, I've been lifting 23 years. 

Amber B 51:29 

Yeah. 

Cody McBroom 51:30 

He's like patience, young grasshopper, and it's it's as exactly what he said it's like. OK. And now people will ask me because like I have built a lot of muscle, but I've been training for 14 years now. I think basically every week I very rarely take time off because it's part of my lifestyle. There's times where I need recovery and I do, but you just stack that overtime, you know, and I think that's that's not to like dishearten anybody of like you got to do this for over a decade before you look good. It's just that you're just going to continue looking better and better, but you can't compare yourself. Like you said, you can't compare yourself to the person that has been doing it for decades that you're aspiring by being be inspired by them, but you don't have to model it exactly as them, if that makes sense. 

Amber B 52:10 

Yeah. And I think to be able to do that, to be able to train for 15, 25, 35, 45 years, you have to enjoy it. And so I think if you are starting out on a fitness journey and you're like, Oh my gosh, I have to live for 23, you're telling I have to live for 23 years before I could see anything. No, you could make a lot of progress, but you're like it isn't something that you've had to like grit your teeth through and just like I gotta keep training. It's something that you probably genuinely enjoy. And so I think understanding that and leaning into how can I find joy in this process? How can I not think about it as an end destination? It's like I'm going to lift for the rest of my life. I'm going to eat a lot of protein for the rest of my life. And it really just, really comes out lifestyle. 

Cody McBroom 52:49 

Yeah. And I think the key to that is you have to focus on the benefits, not the sacrifices.  

Amber B 52:54 

Oh, that’s good. 

Cody McBroom 52:55 

There's there's going to be times where, yeah, you're in the gym for an hour. There's any times we got a meal prep on Sunday. But the people who get the best physiques long term are the people who constantly reflect on the benefits they're getting from the work they're doing, not the sacrifices they make during the work or the process. 

Amber B 53:11 

So good and what a great thing to end on as well. So thanks so much for being here. Can you kind of let everybody know where they can find you if they want to learn more. 

Cody McBroom 53:18 

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me. This is the conversation flew by, it’s really good. So, Tailored Coaching Method is the company I own. We do a lot of content, free guides, that's our coaching. The Trainer app is attached to that. And my name is Cody McBroom. So, it's Tailored Coaching Method or Cody McBroom on Instagram, podcast. All that kind of stuff. Really, really easy to find. 

Amber B 53:40 

Fantastic. Thanks for joining me today and thanks for sharing so much of your wisdom and your knowledge, I really appreciate it. 

Cody McBroom 53:45 

Yeah. Absolutely. 

Amber B 53:46 

Awesome. Well, that was really fun. I hope you enjoyed that interview. If you liked this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio, it would mean the world to me if you took the five minutes that it takes to leave a rating and review of the podcast. When you do that, it really helps the podcast algorithm to spread the the word out to other people who might be interested in listening to my content and it takes you less than 5 minutes and means so so much to me and the work that I'm putting out here. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber, now go out and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything.  

Outro

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