222: The Mindset Of Running (Even If You Aren’t A Runner) with Angie Brown

Introduction 

You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio episode number 222.

Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PRs. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife, and mom of four. Each week, my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise mindset, personal development, and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel, and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you, my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in, now let’s jump into today’s episode.

 

Amber B  0:48 

Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, and today we're talking about running. But if you're not a runner, you still should listen. Because I would not consider myself a runner and I have learned so much. You'll hear my like mind blown. I basically have that mind-blown emoji by the end of this episode. And you'll get to witness that towards the end as I talk with my friend Angie Brown. So I brought Angie on to the podcast. Well, first, she invited me on to her podcast, and we had just a super great conversation. And I realized very quickly that both of us do very similar things in different contexts, right. I coach and teach and train in the macro counting and the weightlifting space. And she does very similar coaching and training and teaching just in the running space. But the way that we present our information, the way that we teach our clients, and the life lessons that we weave into our coaching parallel each other so much. And so after we had that interview, I just was like, I need to bring Angie on to the podcast so we can continue this conversation and dive more into some of the aspects of running. But particularly the aspects of running that really just are just super applicable to so many areas of our life. So that's what I did, I brought Angie on she is a physical therapist, and she owns a business, which I love called Real Life Runners. And we talk about that and about what she does to help people to be able to tap into this ability to learn to run and to learn to like running and enjoy running. And at the end, she shares this concept of like letting running be easy. That was just such an aha moment for me. So I am so excited for you to dive into this episode. Like I said, even if you're not a runner, I'm not a runner and by the end of the episode was just like this was such a good conversation. So even if you're not a runner, continue to listen, because I'd be very surprised if you finish this and didn't learn something new. So let's dive into that interview. 

 

Amber B  3:11

I am so excited to welcome Angie Brown to the podcast today. Angie, how the heck are you doing?

 

Angie  3:18  

Hi, Amber. I'm doing awesome. How are you?

 

Amber B  3:20  

I'm doing excellent. And some of the people listening to this may be like, oh, I know, Angie, she's a runner. Amber, why are you having a runner on the podcast? That's like not your favorite thing to do and you would be right. But as I was talking to Angie about this beforehand, we are going to talk about a lot of things in the context of running. But even if you're not a runner, the things that we're gonna talk about today are gonna be super applicable to you as well. So let's kick it off Angie, with you just kind of introducing yourself to my audience. Who are you? What do you do? And how did you get into running?

 

Angie  3:55  

Oh, that's an interesting question. So yeah, thanks. My name is Angie and Angie Brown. I'm a mom to two girls, I am a wife and I'm the owner and founder of Real Life Runners where I coach runners to feel and perform their best and learn how to fit running and fitness into their real lives, hence real-life runners. So my running story is interesting and then how I got to kind of where I am is also an interesting story. So to answer your question relatively quickly, I used to hate running. So like I'll start there, for like those people that might connect to that part of like, you know, not liking running like I grew up with in high school, and I was like a competitive athlete, like softball, basketball, and volleyball. And so running was always a punishment for us. You know, like, if you missed a serve, it was punishment, right? And so I always had this very negative connotation around running. And it wasn't actually until I met my husband, who was a runner, who actually kind of helped me to start seeing running in a little bit of a different way, and kind of opened my eyes to like what running actually could be that I actually took on this identity of runner and actually started running and actually to see in train what I can see what I can do with it.

 

Amber B  5:10  

So, this question came to me as you were talking about the identity of a runner because I noticed you said, you know, I met my husband who was a runner, right? So it's like this identity. And I'm curious is like, when somebody takes that identity on is that a self-proclaimed identity? I think sometimes people are hesitant to call themselves a runner, and you'll hear people say, Oh, I'm not actually a runner, like, I jog, or I'm not actually a runner, like I walk or whatever like, kind of feeling like that identity is something that is out of their reach, or that they don't qualify for, or is it really just more of like, you decided you're a runner and that's all it takes to have that identity a 100%?

 

Angie  5:48  

Yeah, like, essentially, like, it is like any identity in our life, right? Like, I think a lot of times, we think that, as you said, there are certain things that need to qualify us to accept certain identities and that's really one of the biggest limiting beliefs that we help our runners or our clients to get over is that idea of like, I'm not a runner, or like, I run but I'm not really a runner, or I'm not a good runner, or I'm just a slow runner, right? Like, there's all these qualifiers that we want to put on it. And if you run your runner, right, it just depends on if you want to call yourself a runner is really what it comes down to.

 

Amber B  6:23  

I love it so much. We coach clients, or we teach, we teach and coach coaches how to coach. One of the first things that I do when our new coaches come into Coaching Academy is I have them change their name in zoom to Coach Jessica, and make that point of like, Okay, from here forth, like you are now a coach because they come a lot of people come in with really hesitant to call themselves a coach, because they're like, I'm not good. I don't know how to do this. It's brand new, like, all these things. And so I like it's one of the first things they do is they change their name in zoom to, like, assume that identity now, like you are now a coach, welcome to be a coach, and you're gonna get better, and you're going to improve, and we're going to go through a lot of stuff. But I think what you said there like is that just calling yourself is assuming that identity and it doesn't take anything more than you make a decision.

 

Angie  7:14  

Yeah, well, and that's such an empowering place to be to, right, because like, you know what we like to and I'm sure you're probably coaching your people the same way as this. It's like the identity is the core of like who we are, right? When we say that we are a certain person or a certain type of person. That's where we then act from, right. So if we call ourselves a runner, that means that we then have to do the things that runners do, like run, and like setting goals and like, try to improve and like do these things. And that's where so many people get stuck. They feel like they're either stuck by inconsistency, or they're stuck, because they have this goal that they want to achieve, but they're not sure how to get to it. And they're not sure what kind of plan they should have. And like all these different things, but like when we kind of get them to this point, because like everybody wants to know what they should do, right? Like everybody's so obsessed with action, like, well, we'll just tell me exactly what I need to do, like, how many miles do I need to run or you know what speed, it gives me the exact pace that I need to run so that I can hit this goal. But it's like, whoa, like, let's pull it all the way back? Like do you even think that you're a runner? Or are you defining yourself as a runner, A? And then B, Are you putting some sort of qualifier on it right? Because you really think that if one of your goals is to get faster, do you really think that you'll be able to do the work to get faster if you identify yourself as a slow runner or as a jogger, or as someone who's not really a runner? Like there's this subconscious identity that all of our actions come from that if we don't get clear on that, and see the kind of like, how we want to define that, right? Because so many times we just like, get things handed to us like we're just told this, or we just take on these identities without even realizing it. And when we realize that we get actually get to choose like, No, this is the kind of person that I want to be, then we can use that power to then drive all the actions that we want to get the outcomes that we want to have in our lives.

 

Amber B  9:06  

It's awesome. Yeah. And I'd love to live like a very clear example, that as you were talking, I was like, oh, yeah, that's totally what I'm doing. So this is about me. I do not consider myself a runner. That is not an identity that I have assumed. And a couple I don't know, maybe a month or two ago. My sisters, I have three sisters and a mom. So there are four of us girls and then my mom and we are going to be together this summer we're going to like a family camp. And so a lot of my sisters are runners and my mom is a runner, my mom ran six half marathons her goal was six half marathons in the year that she turned 60. 

 

Angie  9:46  

So awesome. 

 

Amber B  9:46  

She loves running. Anyway, they put me on this text message training. They're like, Hey, we're all going to run this half marathon when we're together. You should come run it with us. And I of course said yes like later only the only thing that can make me run a half marathon is my other three sisters and my mom all running in the same race. That's like the only reason. So I said yes. That is in a little less than a month like it's about a month away, asked me how many times I've gone running. 

 

Angie  10:17  

How many times you've gone running? 

 

Amber B  10:19  

Zero.  

 

Angie  10:20  

Oh, no!

 

Amber B  10:20  

I bought some running shoes last week so we're making some progress. 

 

Angie  10:24  

That's good. 

 

Amber B  10:25  

But I know when you were talking about this, I noticed that that identity of like, I'm not a runner, I don't have to be good at this has prevented me from going out and doing the thing that would help me to be better at this. 

 

Angie  10:38  

And then what happens is, then you go out and do that thing and you don't get the results you want or you like, feeling like crap in doing it, right. And that reinforces the identity that you're not a runner.

 

Amber B  10:49  

I'm not a runner.

 

Angie  10:50  

But you're doing this, right? 

 

Amber B  10:51  

Yeah. But is it really that I'm not a runner, or is it that I just freakin’ didn't do anything to prepare for this race that I have signed up for? So I had some aha moments. And I think the reason I'm sharing this story is that we all do this to some extent. And so yes, I'm telling you a story about running. But what I want you to hear in this is the way that I am justifying this to myself, because you probably do it as well. So it's part of the way that I'm justifying is like, Well, I'm not going to be good at this anyway. Like, nobody expects me to be good at this. Everybody expects me to suck because I'm not a runner. And so I then perpetuate that cycle by not doing anything that would help me to be better. Because if I do that, and well, let's say that I did, let's say that I ran three times a week and like started tapering my miles up and like did these long runs on Saturday, and then I still sucked, and I still wasn't as good as my sisters, then what would that mean about me, right? So it's like if I put in the effort, and when I fail, that's even worse than if I just show up, and I'm like, Oh, well, I haven't run at all. So of course, I'm going to be terrible at this. 

 

Angie  11:51  

Yeah. Is it better, though? 

 

Amber B  11:54  

No. That's what we tell ourselves. This is like the lies that we tell ourselves, right. And I hadn't really put that together until you started talking. So I guess I'm going out for a run.

 

Angie  12:07  

All right. 

 

Amber B  12:08  

Or later today? 

 

Angie  12:09  

Well, whatever you do, don't make it like a 10-mile run for you. 

 

Amber B  12:12  

Oh, no, actually, it was funny. I went to go buy running shoes at the store. And the guy like was sitting down and I was telling him I'm like, not really a runner. Like my sisters want me to run this thing. I do a lot of weightlifting. Like I'm you know, I'm pretty fit. But I like don't run very much but I'm running this half marathon. And he's like, it's not tomorrow, is it? And that was like, No, it's like in a month. And he's like, Oh, okay. He's like, we get people coming in here all the time, who are like, I'm running a half marathon tomorrow. I'm getting new shoes today. And he's like, that's a terrible idea. So at least I, you know, wasn't that person. 

 

Angie  12:46  

That's good. That's good. I'm glad you got good running shoes. 

 

Amber B  12:49  

Oh, okay. So let's go back to the lessons that you've learned. I want to hear over the time that you have been a runner, What are some of the biggest lessons that you have learned that have been applicable in other areas of your life? 

 

Angie  13:05  

Oh, my gosh, where do you want me to start? Like, there are so many things right, like, and I think one of the biggest things that running has taught me personally, is that I'm not good at everything right away. But if I keep working on it, I can improve, right? Like I am, and I don't want this to sound like bragging in any way, but like, I'm naturally good at a lot of things. Like I'm a naturally athletic person, right? And so when I would be playing volleyball, or basketball, or softball or whatever like there was a level of natural talent there. But like running was something that I definitely told myself, I was not good at, right. And for the longest time, I told myself, I'm not a runner, or I'm a slow runner like I put all of those qualifiers on myself. 

 

Angie  13:50 

And when I actually started to kind of get into running, I just started to kind of open myself up to curiosity, right, and possibility, like, what if I actually did want to get faster? Like, would it be possible for me to get faster? And so I think that that's one of the things that running has taught me and one of the reasons that I continue to run because it's not necessarily something that comes naturally to me that's like, I look at someone like my husband, my husband is a natural runner. And he's actually training for his first 100-mile race this month, which is like a whole another level of crazy.

.

Amber B  14:29  

A whole another level of crazy.

 

Angie  14:30  

That is not me at all. But running is one of those things that I know that if I put in the work and if I put in the effort, I can improve and I will continue to improve and it will continue to teach me that and also keep me humble. As you know, even if I am putting in the work progress in running is not linear, right? Like the same thing I'm sure with weightlifting, right, it's not linear. There are ups and downs there. You know, there are times that you're gonna have to like, pull back because you don't feel well. And you run a race and you don't PR you don't set, you know, the time that you were hoping to set. And so it's like, okay, picking yourself back up and like figuring out where you need to adjust your training and then going at it again, right.  And so I think that one of the biggest things, also that running has taught me is that, like we were talking about before with identity, like, it was all about the way that I was thinking about myself and about running and like how much my thoughts and beliefs influenced what I was capable of doing, right. Because everything that I was thinking about running or about myself, totally had an effect on what I was able to achieve in my running. And by learning how to start shifting that I can reach things in my mind that I've never thought I was going to be able to do.

 

Amber B  15:49  

That's so awesome. Yeah, and I see so many similarities and engine, I've already talked about this, because I went on her podcast is like, so many of these things that we learned and it doesn't have to be running. And it doesn't have to be weightlifting, and it doesn't have to be macro counting. And like, it can be a lot of different things. But when we do new hard things, there are lessons there that are applicable to so many areas of our life. And so, for me, fitness becomes this playground of a playground to learn, and to get experiences and to have hard things that then carry over to like all these other areas of my life. And it's one of the things that I love most.

 

Angie  16:31  

Yeah, I totally agree. I always say that fitness is like the gateway to personal development, right? It's like your fast track to personal development, because it really is right, like, you just start to get into fitness, whatever it might be, you know, running, weightlifting, whatever, just because you like to want to get in better shape, you know, you want to be more healthy, like whatever it might be. And then you start to learn these other lessons like, from whatever that sport is that you're choosing, and you realize how it does help you in other areas of your life. And that's really why I even started our company, Real Life Runners because I wanted to help give people those connections, help them make those connections, and be able to run in a way that was right for their bodies so that they could gain all of those benefits. Because it was it's not just about the running. Like I always tell people this, it's not about the running. It's not about how many miles you run, it's not how much weight you lift. Like, it's about what those things will do for you as a person like the lessons that we learned from running, which is really, where you know why I started our podcast, our company like all of that is was all about, like the benefits that we get from running that will help us just to be better humans and live a better life.

 

Amber B  17:39  

I love that so much. So people who have listened to podcasts for a long time have heard me say that I've run one marathon in my life. Exactly one, it was back when I was like 21 years old. It was a bucket list. It was like, hey, that wouldn't it be cool if I probably should run a marathon runs once in my life. And I ran it and everybody told me oh my gosh, you're gonna get so hooked, you're gonna cross that finish line, and you're gonna be like, when's the next marathon I can run across the finish line and I was like, I never ever want to do this again. And there's the bucket list being checked off. So if someone is listening, and they're like me, where they're like, has this bucket list item of like, I just want to run a half marathon or I want to run a full marathon or you know, whatever, I want to do a triathlon or whatever bucket list item that is, what is your best piece of advice for that person to have it maybe a little bit more successful and rewarding than maybe even my experience was? Although I will say I learned a ton about myself in that process. So I'm not sad that I did it by any means. I'm actually really happy that I did it. But how can you know from a professional standpoint is like, how can we set that person up for success to have that be a really successful and rewarding experience for them?

 

Angie  18:51  

Yeah, I think that the biggest piece of advice is to go into it with the right timeline, right. And understanding that, like, anything is possible if you have the right timeline and if you have the right training plan, and that's a training plan that is right for you. This is one of the things that we talk about with our clients all the time so many runners will just go on the internet, right? And they'll just download a generic, like, yeah, you download or you know, find a how to run a marathon book, and you use the plan in the back of the book, right? And those things are, they're fine for some people, but they're not fine for a lot of people. And a lot of people like starting to train using these types of generic methods and plans, and they get injured or they because what happens is what the generic plans do is that they assume that everyone's at the same starting point, right? So it's like, for a marathon, for example, you know, maybe that marathon plan starts at like 10 miles, you know, or eight miles. So you assume oh, yeah, oh, it's gonna take me 16 weeks to train for a marathon, but that's assuming that you have this base and foundation that you've already built up, right. And so if you know that you have didn't run at all. And you want to train for a half marathon or a marathon, it's totally possible as long as you have the right timeline and a plan that's right for you like for your body and building on understanding like maybe where some of your strengths are and where some of your weaknesses are. Because some people really love doing just the distance runs and some people really hate doing like the longer slower runs and love doing like speed work and love doing lifting and those kinds of things. So like, how can you create a plan that's going to make you enjoy the process of it as well, right? Because like, bucket list items are cool. And it's great to like, say that you did it and like do this hard thing. But like, are you enjoying the process along the way? Like, I think that that's really the more important part.

 

Amber B  20:41  

Yeah, no, it's really good, a piece of good advice. Let's talk about this overlap between lifting and running. 

 

Angie  20:48  

Oh, there's a big one. 

 

Amber B  20:50  

Yeah, I'm so glad that you say that. Because I get a lot of runners who have ideas about what it takes to become a better runner, and lifting is often not included anywhere in that plan. So can you tell me about that? Can we talk about, you know, I'd love to hear from your perspective that overlap of like, how can lifting help you to be a better more powerful runner?

 

Angie  21:15  

Yeah, for sure. Well, lifting plays a huge role in running. So my background, which I haven't really told you about yet, like, I'm a physical therapist. So that's like, kind of what led me into coaching runners in the first place is like, really, when I was working in PT, I had two kids, I'd been working about 10 years. And like, I kind of always knew that I wanted my own business. And I just kind of hated the traditional PT business model. I didn't want to be stuck in an office dealing with insurance. But like, I knew I wanted to help more people. And I wanted flexibility with my girls. And I also didn't like the way that the health care system and the medical system were set up in that, like, in my opinion, health care was like, so reactive, right, and I wanted to help people be more proactive with their health, right. Because I know that like, probably 95 to 99% of like, chronic pain and chronic disease can be cured by lifestyle changes, right, like helping to teach people these things and like runners, you know, that are doing this thing to better their health are getting into running, but not understanding how they need to have this comprehensive plan they need to have the strength training really plays such a critical role in allowing them to be runners into especially if you're going in and trying to run a half marathon or a marathon or trying to get fast or anything like that. 

 

Angie  22:36 

And so coming from this sports medicine background as a PT, like that was one of the first things that I started to do within our business is like just teach runners how to prevent injury, how to teach them how to treat and prevent injury. And lifting is a huge part of that so essentially, injury prevention is one of the biggest areas that most runners will finally start to accept that strength training is necessary for which like, if I tell them because a lot of runners are like, I don't want to strength train, like it's so funny, like, there's like lifters that hate running and runners that hate lifting and really, it's all just making us stronger and healthier humans, right. So if there's a runner out there that like, does not like lifting, if I can help them understand how doing some of these strength exercises will actually help your knee feel better, so that you can now run 10 miles instead of being limited every time you hit five or six. They're like, Oh, okay, then they start to kind of listen, right. So that's usually kind of my in, like, injury treatment or prevention, right? Helping them understand that like, when we lift when we do target strength training, as runners, it helps to support our body in a way to allow us to do that thing that we love, which is running, right. 

 

Angie  23:57

The other thing that a lot of that lifting will do is it will help us to build power and speed, right, because a lot of times runners will get into running and they will just you know, they'll start running, they'll want to be in better shape. And then they like, do their first 5k, right, or they join a running group and they realize oh like I'm not as fast as other people and they start comparing themselves, which is a whole another topic. But then the next thing they want to develop is they want to get faster, right and lifting, strength training will allow people to get faster because when you build your muscles, you develop more power and when you have more power, you can run faster without getting so tired, which is like really the third aspect of like helping make your muscles more fatigue resistant, right so that they don't fatigue as quickly. And strength training is when you build muscle mass and you improve muscle recruitment, which is you know, the number of muscles that fibers that are firing when you're doing certain exercises, your running just becomes a lot more efficient so you waste less energy, which means you have more energy to run longer or to run faster,

 

Amber B  25:01  

Are there particular exercises that are uniquely specific to runners that are like really great if you are a runner of like adding these core lifts to your training?

 

Angie  25:15  

Well, so it's interesting the way that strength training has kind of developed in the running community because it used to be like, you know, bodyweight exercises are the best for runners right. And now there has definitely been more of a shift towards more like power lifts. And some of these like, more like compound lifting and like low repetition, high weight types of lifting, which was like the opposite of the way that runners used to strength train. And really, there's a place for both. But in my opinion, the most important exercises for runners to do are single-leg exercises, because running is essentially jumping from one leg to the next, right. And so our body needs to be able to stabilize itself and then propel itself forward. So a lot of times runners will go into the gym and like you know, squats are great deadlifts are great. Like, you know, some of the exercises that a lot of runners that I recommend are squats, deadlifts, planks, farmer’s carry those kinds of things, all important exercises. But I always tell people, you also need to focus on single leg exercises because that is how you need to strengthen as a runner, it's very functional, right? So when we land on one leg, all of the muscles, especially in our glutes need to contract and stabilize our pelvis. And then our whole leg complex obviously has to then propel us forward as well. So by training one leg at a time do you know single leg deadlifts, like single leg squats, like the same types of movements, but with just one leg instead of two, you're training your body to be able to stabilize itself on one leg, which is exactly what we need to do as runners. 

 

Amber B  26:54  

That's super interesting. You kind of mentioned this, so let's go there, this talk about comparison. And, you know, what you brought up was very, very common is like comparison against other people. And that happens with when you're a runner, or when you go to the gym, like, you know, our brains love to compare. And that can be somewhat beneficial in some instances, and somewhat unbeneficial in a lot of instances. But one of the more like, just like sneaky ways that competition tends to come out. And I think we see a lot in runners, we also see a lot in lifters where it's like, you compare a current version of yourself to a past version of yourself. I think, Oh, I used to be able to lift X amount of weight, or I used to be able to PR my mile at this time, and they're not currently there. And that can be a little bit harder to distance ourselves from because it's not someone else. It's like, actually, apples to apples. We like comparison. So- 

 

Angie  27:51  

Yeah, I used to be able to do this, why can't I do this anymore? 

 

Amber B  27:54  

Right. So how can we move away from comparison, both in the terms of with other people, but then also with, like, past versions of ourselves?

 

Angie  28:01  

Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with this, and I think that the most important thing for us to remember and to understand is that running is a journey, or our fitness is a journey, right? And it's not supposed to look the same at different places, like in our lives, like it's supposed to look different when we are at different places in our life. And it can also play a different role in our life, right? Like, depending on where we are like I see it a lot, especially with women, right? Comparing themselves pre-baby to post-baby, right, like Biceps After Babies, like, that's a lot of what happens with us as women, you're like, Well, this is what was happening. This is what I was capable of, before I had this baby, I had some babies, and now like, things are totally different. Like, and of course, they are like, everything in your life is different, right? Your body has changed, your hormones have changed, like, and so much has changed. And we don't like to acknowledge that for some reason. We think that like, you know, we should be the same as we were when we were like 25 years old and single. And you know, it's just not the same. 

 

Angie  29:03

And so I think that, like, it's important to kind of understand and realize, like, what was running for you then or lifting or fitness, whatever it might be, right? What was it before you were a mom or back 10 years ago, 20 years ago, whatever you're comparing yourself to, and then what is running now. And I think it's really about redefining the role that we want running to have in that season of our lives, like understanding that like where I am now, as a 41-year-old mom of two is much different than where I was at 21. Like when I was 21 I was running because I didn't like my body. And because I wanted to lose weight and I was in college and like, you know, I wasn't playing sports anymore. And like running still sucked and like all of that right? And here I am at 41 and I have two kids. I'm in the best what I would consider the best shape of my life and running is like I love it. Right? It gives me a sense of community. It gives me a way to challenge myself it is like this is a place of personal empowerment but like, you know, I think that understanding how it plays a different role in our life is really, really important. Because even though maybe people were faster at a younger age, and like, this is like my husband was a competitive runner in high school and in college, right? So he's like, he's never going to hit those numbers again, like your speeds, right? And like, I'm not quite there, because like, I still feel like I don't really know what I'm capable of, like, I'm still like, I think it's still possible for me to improve, right? I don't really know. But like, it's a different mindset to understand. Okay, like that was then and this is now in my life looks totally different now. And I like to compare it to marriage, it is just alone, right? Because like, there's the honeymoon phase, right? Like, right, when you get married, and everything's exciting. And like, it's just you and your husband, and there are date nights, and there's romance, and there are all these things. And then there's life with two kids. And we can appreciate both for what they are, but then also know that we're exactly where we need to be right now. Like, as much fun as it was to be in that honeymoon phase and whatnot. Like, I wouldn't trade what I have now for that any day of the week. Right? Like, that was great. And so is this like, it can be a both and instead of an either-or.

 

Amber B  31:15  

Yeah, it's like honoring both versions of yourself both times of your life.

 

Angie  31:19  

Yeah. And different seasons, right. Like, I think that that's really the important thing is like especially people that have like new babies, you know when they come to us, and they're like, Well, I just had a baby six months ago, and I really want to get back to my pre-baby weight, and my pre-baby racing and all this stuff. And I'm like, give yourself some time to breathe. Like, your baby is only six months old, like you have the rest of your life to run. And that's fine. But you don't have to get right back to where you were right away and it was just like-

 

Amber B  31:48  

Was that like taking away the hurry? Like, For taking the timeframe. I loved what you said about if you want to run a race, like maybe releasing that timeframe in which do you think that it needs to happen? Like it needs to happen next month, or in six months, or whatever. Like, it's like, yeah, when we're in this race, I'm gonna get ready for it. And I'm going to give myself plenty of time, plenty of runways to do so. And I think that's really valuable is like releasing that timeframe, but you think it will happen. 

 

Angie  32:12  

Because I always tell people what are you rushing towards? Like, why is this such an important thing that you have to get you right now? Right? Like, do you want to just, you know, run for six months and then be done? Or do you want to try to run for the rest of your life like most of the people that we work with, like want running to be a part of their life in some form for as long as possible? And the people that like are limited and aren't able to run because of knee pain, or because of whatever it might be, they are so upset that they no longer have running. So I'm like, instead of trying to rush ahead and like hit these numbers, and risk injury in the process, why don't you just like slow it down a little bit, give yourself a longer timeline, enjoy the process a heck of a lot more, and know that you're still on the right path to get to that goal, it might just take a little bit longer than you originally hoped for.

 

Amber B  33:04  

Yeah. So you talked about longevity, like having this habit in the longevity of the sport? Yeah, what’re things that runners need to be thinking about that are going to help improve that ability to continue running into their 50s and 60s, and 70s? And however long they want to be running? How do we improve longevity in the sport?

 

Angie  33:25  

Lots of ways. But the biggest thing is like understanding how to train in a way that's right for you, for your body, for your goals, for the lifestyle that you want to be living right now. And like we talked about, like training with intention, right, and training with like a personalized plan. And understanding that like running is just one piece of the puzzle that you need to actually support yourself as an athlete through running, through strength training, through nutrition through recovery, right, that is the best way for you to have longevity in the sport and avoid injury and avoid some of the pitfalls and the time off. And things that a lot of people have is because they try to push too hard. Like most runners, when they want to get faster or they want to run longer, they end up going out and they just push too hard all the time. And they never allow their body time to recover. And when you are constantly pushing hard and breaking the body down and not recovering and not fueling yourself, well with good nutrition, it's just going to lead to burnout, it's going to lead to exhaustion, it's going to lead to injury, it's going to lead to you not being able to run anymore. And so the best way to improve longevity is to really think of yourself as an athlete and think of all the other areas that support you as a runner. 

 

Angie  33:25

And then number two, slow down because you're probably running too fast. Like most runners, that's like the biggest mistake we see is that most runners run too fast all the time. Like they think that running needs to feel uncomfortable to be effective, right? They need to be uncomfortable, they need to be pushing it to that medium to moderate effort level. We do a lot of teaching people about effort-level training and like the RPE, the rating of perceived exertion. And like most runners, when they go out, they run it like a level like five or six out of 10. Right? Because they think that that's like, medium-paced, like, that's, that's where I should be right. And in reality, most of the running should actually be around like a level two or three out of 10. You know, which, when I tell people that- 

 

Amber B  35:20  

So much more enjoyable to me.

 

Angie  35:22  

It is, you got it, right. And once I learned that, like, that's one of the things that made running so much more enjoyable, like, you could just go out and like, I go out and run with my friends. And we just like chat and have a conversation as we're running because it's easy enough pace that like, I don't, I'm not gasping for air. So like most runners, like, that's one of the biggest things like and when I tell people that they kind of have this, like, mind blown moment where they're, like, really, like, running doesn't have to feel hard all the time. And I'm like, no, like, it should actually feel easy, like, a little bit of your running needs to be hard. Like, if you want to get faster and, and kind of push yourself, you need to do a little bit of that, like medium to harder running, but most of it should be at that comfortable pace. 

 

Angie  36:03 

And then the third thing would be strength training, you know, understanding that you like, again, there's going to be more than just running that adds to your longevity with the sport.

 

Amber B  36:16  

Okay, so you just blew my mind. That the mind-blown one is me. And it's just so interesting to like, see how I can learn lessons in one area of my life and yet not apply them in other areas of my life? Because I do I'm noticing as you're talking is like, that's one of the reasons I haven't gone out for a run is because like, it sucks on some level. And nobody wants to go do something that's like hard and they don't like and right. Giving myself the permission just to like, have it be easy. 

 

Angie  36:47  

Yes. And you know what else I can give you the permission to do? 

 

Amber B  36:50  

Please, walk. I love that. Thank you. 

 

Angie  36:54  

Yes, I will. Because so many people think that like, well, if I'm a runner, that means I can't walk or if I know, like, yeah, like I'm doing it wrong, or I'm just not good. Like, run walk. Like there's actually like a method run walk method. And this is how we coach a lot of our athletes, especially like the new runners, or people that are coming back from injury or people that are really trying to build mileage. Having scheduled walking breaks is a very good method for you to improve your running. Because, like, once you like a lot of people believe it or not have a hard time understanding what it feels like to run easy because they're so used to pushing themselves, right. And so there are so many times people come in, I'm like, you get to run easy, and they're like, Okay, cool. And then they like to head out on the run. They're like, yeah, no, that wasn't, that wasn't a two, that was still a four, that was a five, or that was a six, they haven't dug up our time. And this kind of goes back to that identity piece that we started with like a lot of times people will identify themselves as a slow runner. And so they're like, Well, I'm already a slow runner, I don't want to slow down even more, right? 

 

Amber B  37:57  

I feel that. 

 

Angie  37:57  

And then that ego kind of gets in the way, right of like, I'm already slow, I can't go slower like that. And even though we give them the science, and we show them all the things behind it, they're like, Yeah, I don't really believe you, I think I should just keep pushing, and then they should come back, you know, with an injury. And I'm like, Don't do that to yourself, you know, like, allow yourself to let it feel easy. And if that means that you need a walking break, let yourself have a walking break, you know, that's all part of it. And you're actually going to improve a lot quicker when you train that way. 

 

Amber  38:29

I just feel like a whole weight has been lifted off of my shoulders. I can walk, I can go slow. And it's like, why it's so silly that like, we need that permission from somebody else. Or we some, like, I think I need your permission to be able to do that, which I don't, of course, but it like never occurred to me that it just I could just run slower, and walk. Like, that's okay, you can do all those things. And it actually, to your point, can help you to be better. And I see this, as the correlation between like lifting and this is like, just so clear. But it's like the people who feel like the best type of lifting is like if they're always lifting so it's like they always have to be like moving from one lift to the next into the next and like you need to add like jumping squats in between they're like squats sets and you're like, No, no actually like doing a really heavy squat set and then like sitting your butt on a chair for like the next two minutes to actually recover the muscles so that you can go back and like push heavy again, is the best way to do it. Like, sit your butt on a chair. Pull out your phone for the next two minutes, actually rest and recover and then go back and do that heavyweight again. But people think that more is better. And so they had jumping squats in between and you're like yeah, but now you're it's like you're changing the whole exercise and you're not getting the results that you would get if you just set your butt on a chair.

 

Angie  39:49 

Yeah, you're changing the whole point of the workout, right like and it's the same thing that we do like with speed workouts, for example. So like a common speed workout that we'll give people will be like quarter repeats right where you run a quarter mile hard and then you stop and you rest for a minute. And then you do it again. Right? And there I had a running friend that I used to run with. And she would always want to jog the rest periods, right? Because she felt like she wasn't doing anything. And like, no, no, that's not the point of this workout like in order to hit that pace, because it was a harder pace that we were supposed to be hitting. We need to rest in between. And then she's like, No, no, she always wanted to jog. And so then by the last set, she wasn't able to hit those paces. Yeah, she because you're gassed exactly because you weren't recovering correctly. But that's all part of it, which is super fun. And to me, that's what really made running so much more fun when I like learned that there were different rate like I didn't just have to go out and run at the same pace and just like, be bored because I thought it was running was so boring. And like that was actually how my husband got me to enjoy running was to give me like interval workouts where I would have these change of pace workouts, which to me was so much more fun and interesting. And it also gets you in shape so much quicker, because like when you just like a car, you know, like when you press the gas and then slow down and press the gas and slow down. That's actually the worst way to get like good gas mileage, right. But it's the fastest way to get your heart and lungs in shape. Because it's like you're constantly you're pressing the gas and then pulling back and pressing and pulling back. So that's actually a much faster way to get in shape. And so when I tell people that they're also more open to like, running easier, or taking walking breaks, if they know that that's going to make them get in shape even faster.

 

Amber B  41:29  

So talk to me a little bit about the RPE scale, because I'm very familiar with the RPE scale when it comes to weightlifting and how you know what an eight RPE is

 

Angie  41:38  

Oh, I would like to learn more about that in lifting.

 

Amber B  41:40  

Oh, well, I will tell you. So in lifting it is the RPE scale is used to like how many more reps you could do at that weight. So for example, if you're doing a 135-pound squat, and you're doing an RPE of eight, you want to do the number of reps that were you could have done two more. So I could have done two more sets. RP nine is I could have done one more rep at RP 10 is like that was it that's everything's on the table. That's a one rep max. And so a lot of people want to go in that, like, they always want to be one rep maximum. But in reality, a lot of your training should be in that like six to seven to eight RPE range where you're leaving something in the tank for the next set, and so on down. So that's how it works in running or in lifting. So yeah, how does the RPE scale work in running? Is it based on a Milot like a split time? Is it based on perceived exertion? Like what's that metric that you use?

 

Angie  42:39  

Yeah, so it's funny, and I think that that's where a lot of people get mixed up. Because you just said that, in lifting, you want to do a lot of your workouts in that like six to eight range. And that's where a lot of runners come in thinking that they need to do most of their runs in that six to eight range, or like in that five to seven range, right. And that's actually the worst way to train. Right. So in running, it's actually you want to be the majority, like 80% of your running should be in the two to three range, like that's, I know.

 

Amber B  43:09  

My mind is so blown

 

Angie  43:10  

Like it should feel easy, because that's where we start to access the aerobic system, right, because running is an aerobic exercise and aerobic, and we need oxygen in order to burn energy the way we want to, right. Because as you obviously know, there's an aerobic system and an anaerobic system. And running is an aerobic activity. So we need to be in those lower effort levels of like an RPE of like two to three out of 10, 80% of the time to allow our heart to develop and our lungs to develop, right, because, during those times, that's when we actually like build more mitochondria, which will help us to produce more energy. We build more capillary networks throughout the body, which will help get more blood to our working muscles, we help the efficiency of fat oxidation, right, like breaking fat down and using fat as fuel that happens in those lower intensity ranges, because we need to have oxygen readily available for those processes. And then we need to do 20% of our training in the anaerobic range. So really, that's anything from like, five and up, you know, five to 10. And in endurance running, we very rarely ever hit a 10. You know, like maybe in sprinting you do but not like in especially half marathon training, you should really never be up at a 10 maybe like an eight or nine. But anything from like a five to an eight is really what you want to do like 20% of the time. So you know, this could look like, again, like I said before, with like quarter repeats, right where you're doing like a hard interval and then you rest and then a heart interval and you rest but for example, if that was part of a five-mile run, you wouldn't do that for five miles you would do like a one to two-mile warm-up, and then you would do a couple of miles of speed work and then you would do a nice easy cooldown. So even within that workout, only a small part of the workout is at that higher intensity level.

 

Amber B  45:05  

So how do I know when I'm running at a two or three? Is it based on pace? Is it based on a heart rate? Is it based on like, can I can talk to my neighbor? Like, what? How do I know that I'm at that pace?

 

Angie  45:19  

So nowadays, there's like so much technology available to us, right. And I think that this is also where a lot of runners get stuck is that they want that exact pace, or they want that exact heart rate. And they're depending on the training method that you use, there are people that will give you like power zones, or heart rate zones or pace zones for you to hit in different ratios, right. But one of the ways that we like to train our athletes are effort based, we're helping them actually learn how to listen to their bodies. So two to three out of 10 is really like, I'm not out of breath, I can hold a conversation, like I can say at least a full sentence without needing to like, stop and take a breath and gasping for air. If you're running by yourself, we always like to say, you can sing the first line of like the Star Spangled Banner, or, you know, Let it go,  if you're not American, or whatever song it is that you want. But like being able to have that kind of conversation and just not feel out of breath. Like it should feel easy to you. And like, it's so funny how difficult that is for people to like, actually allow themselves to go slow enough.

 

Amber B  46:25  

I can see that being really hard for me. This is a good challenge. 

 

Angie  46:29  

Because you're used to pushing yours, right? Like, because as an athlete, especially as someone with goals, like we're constantly, we're told to push ourselves like no pain, no gain, work harder is better, right? Like you should always be pushing. And that's the mentality that so many people come from, especially people that get into running later in life, they come from that competitive sports background when they were younger. And so that's the mentality they have. And so when they come to us, and I tell them, No, no, you have to slow down and they're like, Yeah, what do you mean? 

 

Amber B  46:59  

No coach in my life has ever told me to go slower. 

 

Angie  47:03  

I know, and that's the beauty of running in the crazy thing is when you go slower, you actually get faster, right? Because of like those physiological adaptations that I was talking about before like you build your body into a more powerful engine that's capable of running longer and running faster and more efficiently.

 

Amber B  47:21  

Okay. My mind has been blown officially.

 

Angie  47:24  

I'm glad I could do that for you. 

 

Amber B  47:26  

I've learned so much because I've like learned so many of the things that I didn't know that I needed to learn during this podcast episode. So that's amazing. Thanks, Angie for sharing all that stuff with us. If people are wanting to connect with you, and they are having their mind blown, and they're like, well, maybe I could be a runner. Maybe I've hated running because I've done it wrong, the whole my life. And I thought it has to be hard and I have to suck and it has to have to hate it. How do they connect with you?

 

Angie  47:53  

Yeah, so we are online at reallife.runners.com. That's the name of our company is  Real Life Runners, we also have a weekly podcast called Real Life Runners. And then on Instagram. Instagram is the platform that I would say I'm the most active on. So again, @realliferunners. So connect with me on any of those, I would love to help anybody learn how to make running work for them. Because I really believe that like, if you have a desire to be a runner or to run a half marathon or a marathon like it's possible for anyone like I think if you just do it the right way.

 

Amber B  48:25  

So good. Well, this has been amazing. Thanks so much for coming on Angie, and sharing all of your wisdom and insight, and information with my audience. I really, really appreciate your time.

 

Angie  48:36  

Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure.

 

Amber B  48:39  

I'm so grateful for Angie and her coming on to the podcast and sharing her expertise and her wisdom. And you know what? I'm committing to letting running be easy. And that's such a mindset shift for me. As she said, I've like feeling like I always have to push myself and it always has to be hard and has to suck on some level for it to be effective. And this whole idea of like an RPE of running at an RPE like two or three is just completely mind-blowing for me. So I'm gonna try it, I'm gonna do it. And I'll let you guys know how it goes. I have my half marathon. Actually, by the time you listen to this, I'll probably have already run my half marathon. And I plan to come on the podcast and talk about some of the lessons that I learned during that experience. So I think that'll probably be next week you have that to look forward to. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber, now go out and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything. 

 

Outro

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