354: 3 Reasons You Overeat (And How To Fix Them) with Coach Sarah

Introduction 

You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio Episode 354.

Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PR's. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife and mom of four. Each week my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in. Now, let's jump into today's episode.

Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host Amber Brueseke and today's topic is such a big one because I know many of you listening have probably felt stuck in a cycle of overeating or binge eating or emotional eating or stress eating. And you know, maybe you've tried every trick in the book, you know, cutting out sugar, replacing foods, distracting yourself only to find yourself continually stuck in this binge and restrict cycle. And if this sounds familiar, you are not alone. And my guest today is someone who really is going to give you some fantastic tangible tips that you can take away and start applying today in order to reduce the experience of overeating. And that guest is none other than one of our Biceps After Babies coaches, Coach Sarah Forbush. 

So Sarah has been a coach with me for about four years. She did MACROS 101 first and then came and I trained her in our coaching academy now known as the Transformational Macro Coach Certification. And then we hired her into the business and she's been working alongside me ever since. And she just has a magnificent knack and passion for coaching women through overeating. And I'm so grateful for Sarah coming on the podcast because she shares a little bit of her story. And I think a lot of you who are listening who struggle with overeating will relate to so many elements of her story, the struggles that she had, the things that she tried to do to fix it. And one of the things she talks about at the end of the episode is how she really felt like there's all these different pieces, right? There's the mental piece, there's the tools, there's the strategy and how she was, has been able to put those all together to actually have this be something that she feels like she's conquered. And you know, she told me many times how she feels like her relationship with food and how she can experience peace now with food is just something that she really craves for more women to be able to experience. So if you feel like you are not currently at peace with food, maybe it's a battle or maybe you're trying to white knuckle it, you know, during certain periods of time. This episode is for you because Sarah's going to talk about how you understand the difference between emotional hunger and physical hunger, which is a huge game changer and how we can actually start to have some actionable steps to feel more empowered. And like I said, at peace with food.  

So grab a notebook and a pen because you are going to want to take notes on this really juicy, really deep conversation that I have with coach Sarah Forbush. Let's dive in.  

Amber B 03:28 

Welcome Sarah to the podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. 

Coach Sarah 03:33 

I'm excited to be here.  

Amber B 03:34 

I was just telling Sarah how brilliant she is and how excited I am just to share your brilliance with the BAB Radio ladies who are listening. So first let's just do a quick introduction of yourself. Tell us a little bit about you and about what you do.  

Coach Sarah 03:49 

Okay. Um, well I am fortunate enough to be a coach in Biceps After Babies is one of my favorite things. I live in Utah. I'm a mother of five and I've worked as a health coach for about eight or nine years, but I worked in different companies and, and kind of with my own private business that I run as well. But primarily for the past four years, I've just worked in Biceps After Babies for all of your programs. And I love all of them and I'm currently getting a master's degree in counseling and I hope to continue with some variation of health counseling in the future once I finish that.  

Amber B 04:20 

I was so excited when you got admitted to that because like I said, you're brilliant. And just for you to be able to continue your brilliance and being able to help and serve people, it's just, it's so awesome. It's so exciting. 

Coach Sarah 04:30 

Oh, thank you. That’s fun. It's fun. 

Amber B 04:32 

So yeah. So I mean, I've had the privilege of knowing Sarah. Yeah. For four years you've been a coach, you've coached in, in all of our programs, like you said, not just in MACROS 101. And one of the things that I have noticed and that you've kind of developed and shared more over time is your gift in being able to really help women through overeating and through emotional eating, through stress eating, you know, whatever you want to label, label it. And it really is one of your superpowers and one of your gifts. So how, how did that become a superpower for you?  

Coach Sarah 05:04 

You know, personal experience always gives us the best clarity in life, doesn't it?  

Amber B 05:08 

Oh my gosh. Amen. I wish it wasn't that case, but it almost always is.  

Coach Sarah 05:13 

I agree. I agree. But honestly, my personal experience and, and what led me to coaching actually is what has given me a lot of clarity with how to help other women overcome overeating, help with their emotional eating, help with stress eating, binging, grazing, you know, all the different forms that, that, that appears as. And I, if I could just share a quick kind of progression of what happened with me, because I think this would relate with a lot of people is that I started out kind of in that sphere of food confusion, where it was like, what should I eat or what should I eat, right? What foods will give me the outcomes that I want as far as good health or losing weight or maintaining my weight or stamina for running. Cause I used to love running. I still do, but not as much. And I just didn't know what I should do. And so I opted into numerous nutritional avenues as far as I ate organic, I ate vegan, I ate keto, I ate gluten-free, I did endless amounts of protein. I did no fat, all fat, you know, and all of it just left me feeling more and more confused because I really didn't know what the outcomes were, what it was producing in my body. And so this kind of led into food fear where I got to a point where I just felt like, well, if I eat a brownie, I'm going to gain weight. Or if I eat this brownie, I'm not going to have stamina for my race that I'm running. Or if I eat this brownie, maybe it's going to sabotage the muscle that I'm trying to gain in the gym. Like I just didn't know. And so it created a lot of food fear, which I think could also be loosely termed as food labeling, you know, good, bad, right, or wrong. And with that, just those two merge with food confusion and food fear, and it led into food restriction. And I just felt like, okay, well, I just need to cut out the foods that aren't right. 

But Amber teaches us beautifully for those of you who haven't been in MACROS 101, but she talks about a pendulum swing, where the more that we restrict, the more that we tend to overeat and it'll swing one side to the next. And when we're overeating, we want to get more control. So then we go to restriction, but then when we're restricting, it's really hard for our brain to stay in a restriction mindset. And so then we'll swing the other way to overeating. And that's really what happened. I would cut out sugar for months at a time. I would cut out bread, or I would cut out a host of different things, meat, you know, whatever nutritional plan I felt like I should be doing at that time. But in the end, I just felt like I was a yo-yo. I was swinging from one side to the next. And so I did numerous programs, courses, read books. I signed up for different classes that life coaches were teaching. Like I just did all sorts of things to try to figure out myself, because I just wanted a peaceful relationship with food. And I felt like I didn't have it. And so that's kind of how it evolved. The thing that really changed though, like what dissipated all of the food, fear, food, confusion, and all of that restriction that I was going through was really understanding data, which I learned from you and the mind work, which I also learned from you. And so when all of those came together, when I joined MACROS 101, it was kind of like, I'd had bits and pieces of a lot of those, but they all came together in one program. And I felt healing happened so fast. I think I'd had the pieces, but I didn't know how to put them together. 

Amber B 08:16 

Sure. Yeah. Like all the puzzle pieces were present, but they needed to be arranged to work, to interlock with each other. 

Coach Sarah 08:23 

Exactly. 

Amber B 08:24 

Yeah. Would you, I think a lot of women are going to be able to relate to, yes, I experienced the pendulum. I know what Sarah's talking about cause I've been there and I can say, I've been there as well of the, I can't eat any. This was like, especially when I was in college, it was being like, I'm going to eat super clean and I'm not going to eat any processed food. And then the weekend would come and then I would eat all the pizza and all of the, you know, soda and whatever. And then it was like Monday morning. Nope, this week is going to be better. So that's a really relatable experience. And I wonder if you're willing to share a little bit of like when you can diagnose the problem and realize that's the problem, what did you try to do to solve that? That didn't work? Because I think sometimes in order to figure out what didn't work, we have to, in order to figure out what does work, we have to figure out what didn't work. So what didn't work for you?  

Coach Sarah 09:09 

That that's a really good question. I, I do remember I did a lot of replacement work where I would think, okay, I I'm going to talk about brownies a lot because I love brownies. So that's just going to be a comment. So instead of eating a brownie, I should eat a fiber one brownie.  

Amber B 09:22 

Yes.  

Coach Sarah 09:23 

Instead of eating a brownie, I should eat popcorn. Instead of eating the brownie, I should eat a lot of protein so that I could eat whatever I wanted and just eat endless amounts of chicken. And then I wouldn't crave the brownie. Trying to replace foods really didn't work long-term. And then I also worked a lot on replacing behaviors. Like I thought, well, if cravings come for brownies, I'll just keep using that example. I should go out on a walk or I should become a reader and really just dive into books or I should develop some other hobby of doing whatever. And so I tried to, to replace those cravings with actions, which I don't think is, is ill intended. And I don't think it's ineffective. It just isn't really diving into the relationship problem because really what I want and what I've wanted is a peaceful relationship with food where I could just eat in moderation and feel peaceful about it. But when we're only focused on actions and behaviors, we're not diving into the relationship. The relationship exists in our mind. And so all of those behavior goals, I kind of laugh at myself because with my sister-in-law, I probably set at least 200 goals for becoming a reader and never did that ever take root. Yup. And so, so with that, I, I, I did a lot of replacement with behavior. Let me think. I also, I did mind work. I really liked the life coaching approach because I felt like it really explained the relationship between our thoughts, create our feelings. And sometimes cravings and hunger can be a feeling. And sometimes it's a natural response from, from physical hunger. And so I learned a lot there, but I felt like some of the mindset work also left me with food fear because I still didn't know what eating a brownie would do for me. Am I going to eat a brownie and gain five pounds the next day? Am I going to eat a brownie and it's going to sabotage the muscle gains that I'm trying to create? Am I going to eat a brownie and then I'm going to die on mile two of my 5k that I'm running? So, so yes, the mind work was helpful, but it didn't pair with the physical data that I needed for my unique body. And then the other one that I really tried was intuitive eating, because I just thought I just need to let go of all of these things. Like I just need to accept my body where it is and I need to just be in tune with it.  

Oh, but Amber, the thing that I found was that it is really difficult to be intuitive if you don't understand the difference between physical hunger and emotional hunger, because physical hunger is solved by knowing how to fuel our bodies appropriately. Emotional hunger feels exactly the same. And so I didn't recognize what was emotional hunger and physical hunger, but emotional hunger, you cannot solve with food. That's why the cravings persist or that's why people continue overeating is because that emotional hunger just stays there. The food isn't taking care of it, even though we're eating. Um, anyway. And so, so with that, and then also you throw in there like the food fear and food confusion that I had and being intuitive, like it's just too.. 

Amber B 12:05 

Like too much. It's too much. Yeah. 

Coach Sarah 12:08 

It was. So all of those had aspects that were effective, but again, many of them, if I could describe it, I'd say many of them left me feeling like there was something wrong with me. I didn't have enough willpower. I didn't have enough self-control. I wasn't doing something right enough. And, and, and that just kind of leaves you feeling on this rollercoaster of hopelessness where it's like, okay, well, I don't really know why I'm overeating at times and other times I'm not, or why I have cravings sometimes. And other times I don't, obviously I just don't have this figured out like other people do. 

Amber B 12:40 

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a very intuitive place for a lot of women to go as well as like when there's a problem, they internalize it like, well, the problem must be me. It's just very intuitive for women. Men tend to be a little bit better at just blaming other people. It's like it's everybody else's fault. They, you know, obviously this is broad generalization, but I do find that with women, we are kind of socialized to internalize of like, well, the, well, everyone else has this figured out. It must be, it must be a failing on my part. And you know, that isn't necessarily the case. 

Coach Sarah 13:12 

Exactly. And I think that also can lead into either the shame blame or change. I kind of like to view it as those three things where it's like, okay, let me blame the nutritional program or the health coach or how my mom raised me or like how my husband eats or whatever it is. Like we just want to blame other people for our eating patterns. And I fell into that or it turns to shame where it's like, there's something wrong with me. And I can't figure this out, even though I keep trying. And really what I had to open up to was like, okay, there are some changes that need to be made. I just need to find the right tools to make those changes. And I hadn't found those yet. But then once, once I came into MACROS 101 and everything came together, I was like, okay, I'm understanding the tools. Now let me apply these and let me change. And it was so empowering. It feels so empowering when we take it back to ourselves and we don't, you know, kind of hover and shame and we don't hover and blame. It's like, no, let me take ownership for my life and I'm going to figure this out.  

Amber B 14:08 

Yeah. I mean, as you were speaking, I love that. As you were speaking, I, I really started to see how shame and blame are two sides of the same coin. It is, it's, it's either like, it's all external, it's all everybody else's fault, or it's either, it's all my fault, right? There are two sides of the same coin. And I love that you were like, no, neither of those are really good. We don't want to do either of them. What we want to do is change. And can we change from that place of, yeah, we can own and understand that people who raised us, society, programming, like that does play. And there are external factors that for sure play into where you are today. So it's not minimizing that. Um, and it's not saying that you don't have any control, right? You do have choices, you have control. So again, it's not minimizing that, but it's like finding that balance between the two to be able to have change come from a really powerful place.  

So good. Okay. So someone is resonating with this and they're like, okay, yes, yes. And yes, Sarah, you are describing my life right now. Uh, how did you start to actually create that change? Like what are some of the tools that somebody listening could actually start to apply in their life to actually start to make a mix of headway in their overeating?  

Coach Sarah 15:19 

Okay. So there are a few things that I think are really helpful to overcoming our tendencies to overeat. One is to really understand what food does for us. And in order to do that, like you really have to understand how to collect data from a scientific perspective, because so many times when we're collecting data about food, it feels restrictive or it feels like a meal plan, or it feels like we have to do it a certain way or it's right or wrong. Where one thing I just recommend is that you start tracking what you eat and just do it with curiosity. Don't try to hit a calorie level. Don't try to hit so many grams of protein. Just think, okay, what does this food do for me? How is my eating contributing to headaches or gut pain? Or am I gaining muscle in my workouts? Am I seeing that I lose weight when I'm eating this way? Do I find that I feel more depressed or that I have more anxiety or that I feel happier or that I feel more peaceful? I think that data is powerful to understand what does food do for me? So for example, back to my brownie example, it was so empowering when I finally learned I could eat two brownies and I'm not going to gain any weight. In fact, I even learned I could eat three brownies and I'm not going to gain any weight. Like then it's almost like the cravings went away because it was like, Oh, I don't really want three brownies. Those really don't make me feel that great later, but I really do want one brownie and I don't fear it anymore. And it took me from the, from the realm of fear, which we never make our best decisions when we're working from fear. And it took me to a place of peace, empowerment, knowledge, confidence, and we make our best decisions when we're, when we're working from that realm. 

Amber B 16:48 

110%. Yeah. 110%. Awesome. What are some other tools?  

Coach Sarah 16:54 

I think another thing, and you and I talk about this a lot in with a lot of the clients that we have is to look at why we overeat. And I've come up with three reasons that most people overeat. And number one is over hunger and over hunger is when you're physically hungry. Like you've waited too long to eat. Your calories are too low. You're just not consuming enough. I think being overly tired can also fuel into this just a little bit because sometimes we're really feeling hungry because we're only living off of four and five hours of sleep. So over hunger is one of the reasons why we overeat. 

Number two, over desire. And this I would describe as like, sometimes we just ramp up our desires for certain foods in our thoughts or because we're restricting so much. So for me, like brownies were like a note, like don't eat the brownie. But then it's like my brain wanted it even more. Or a common example that I have is we have these great neighborhood barbecues at times. And I was talking to a friend last, I can't remember last May or June, whenever we were having a neighborhood, neighborhood barbecue. And she was like, came on a diet, but I know I'm going to go there and they're going to be all of these amazing meats and all of these amazing desserts. And so-and-so is going to bring her homemade bread and blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, and she's like telling me all of these things about how amazing they are, how good they taste. She doesn't know what to do because she's on diet and she doesn't want to eat it. And I mean, can you just hear all of that desire being ramped up in her mind and then you go to the barbecue and it's really hard for your brain to moderate your eating. If in your brain, you've created all of this over desire. Like for me, I'd created over desire for brownies because I'd restricted for so long for this other friend of mine, she'd created all of this desire for the barbecue. And then she wants to go there and she wants to eat in moderation and feel peaceful about it. It's almost like they contradict each other and it creates this internal dissonance within us. And so that's another reason why we overeat.  

Third reason is emotional eating. And for years, I thought emotional eating was just secretive, isolated. Like we were in our closet eating a sleeve of Oreos or we're in our pantry eating handfuls of chocolate chips, or it was, you know, attributed to sadness or trauma or other things. Well, you know, my, the light bulbs in my brain went off when I realized, you know, I walk into a movie theater and I'm surrounded by emotional eaters because hardly anyone is there because and eating the.. 

Amber B 19:07 

They’re hungry for popcorn?  

Coach Sarah 19:09 

They're not physically hungry. 

Amber B 19:11 

They’re not physically hungry for popcorn. 

Coach Sarah 19:13 

No. And so emotional eating really takes on two realms. One is to amplify emotions and the other one is to smother emotions. And again, this is where emotional, emotional hunger is what produces emotional eating. And when you understand what emotional hunger is and where it's stemming from, then you know how to resolve it. 

Amber B 19:30 

And how does somebody determine, am I feeling physical hunger or am I feeling emotional hunger?  

Coach Sarah 19:36 

That's really good question. So physical hunger starts out really slow. It usually starts in your stomach, your stomach's growling. You know, you recognize, Oh, it's probably time for lunch, but I could put it off for half an hour. Let me finish what I'm doing. You want to eat a wide variety of foods. Like you could eat chicken, you could eat a piece of toast, you could eat an apple, you could eat a brownie. You know, it's not like your brain is craving certain things. Emotional hunger comes on fast and it feels intense and it's persistent. Like you keep having these cravings and it's usually for highly palatable foods. I have seen in some clients where they crave like comfort foods, like mashed potatoes and gravy, but for most people it's processed foods. It's fast food, it's treats, it's chips. It's, you know, things that are highly palatable and you're not satiated. So, you know, when you eat lunch and you're physically hungry afterwards, you feel satiated. With emotional hunger, you can eat and eat and you aren't really going to be satiated until you physically feel sick because you've eaten too much because food is not going to solve emotional hunger.  

Amber B 20:34 

Yeah. So good. One of the things that I learned a lot from you is that, cause I had to use this label of emotional hunger as something I see in my, see my clients or emotional eating rather. And you are someone who like is like, you know what? I emotionally ate for a long time and I didn't, I would never label myself as an emotional eater. So what are some other examples of like emotional eating that maybe is like this broad umbrella of things that all kind of have the same root, but maybe we call them different things.  

Coach Sarah 21:03 

Sure. I think stress eating is one of the ones that I see the most often people say, well, I'm just a stress eater. Well, that's an emotional eater or I graze a lot. Or whenever I go to parties or social events, I, I overeat. That's emotional eating. Sometimes people see it as binging or some people see it, it only happens on the weekends or some people boredom eat a lot, you know? And so, so I think it pops up in a lot of different areas. I just think it's a lot more common than any of us really recognize within ourselves. 

Amber B 21:35 

Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. So if somebody is recognizing, Oh, okay. I, I do, I do relate to overeating on the weekends or overeating at parties or binging or, you know, whatever, stress eating. And they are wanting some tools to start to improve that or have that get better. Because for a lot of people, this is psychologically really stressful for them. I mean, a lot of people, like you said, there's this fear of food. There's this fear of, Oh my gosh, how long can I hold on before I overdo it again? You know, that pendulum swinging back and forth. And so what are some, some advice that you have for somebody to start to improve their relationship with food, get out of that restricting and overeating pendulum that a lot of people are stuck on?  

Coach Sarah 22:19 

There's a few things that I do think are really effective. Number one, you have to differentiate between physical hunger and emotional hunger. Like that's, that's key number one. And very simply, I think it's a pretty easy goal to just say, okay, anytime I feel hungry, I'm just going to label this as this physical or emotional. It doesn't take any extra work. You don't have to go anywhere. You can be anywhere. But if your brain gets programmed into saying this physical or emotional, then it also can lead you down the path of effectively taking care of them. And I it's been interesting for me to watch my own brain when like just barely, I was eating lunch before we were going to meet. And after lunch, I was craving a built bar. And I was like, that's emotional hunger. I didn't consciously think that it just came up within me. And I was like, that's so fascinating. I've been doing this for so long that my brain just totally recognized  

Amber B 23:05 

Already asked the question, already asked and answered the question.  

Coach Sarah 23:09 

Labeled it for me. It's like, Sarah, you know what you're doing? Like this is emotional hunger. And I'm not ever bad to eat. Like I ate the bill bar. I wanted one. I knew what it would do for me. I knew that it would make me feel more satiated. And it totally fits within the goals that I have for my own health and my own body. And so, you know, I'm not saying that emotional eating is ever bad. It just depends on what your goals are. And usually when people are emotionally eating, they don't like it because it's, it's affecting their health goals or their body goals for themselves. And so with that do you mind if I just share two examples that I think would be helpful?  

Amber B 23:42 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Coach Sarah 23:43 

This will kind of show some of the tools and maybe what you can do. Last night I was talking to a client and she just said, I snack all day long. Like I just have these cravings for snacking all day long. And she said, I'm just wondering if I should add in an extra meal so that I feel more satiated. And as we kind of looked at things, she was eating plenty to be physically satiated. And it was interesting because she started saying some things like, well, I'll eat the snack and then I still feel hungry afterwards. And she said, so then I stopped taking snacks to work. She's all, but then I find myself going to the snack room or to the vending machine and getting things. And she said, and my brain wouldn't stop thinking about those snacks. Like I just had to finally eat them because my brain wouldn't stop thinking. So all of those are classic signs of emotional hunger. And so as we talked about it and she recognized what was going on, the thing that I felt like for her was going to be most effective was first of all, to figure out what her brain really wanted, because our brain really doesn't want the food. That's what we think. We think that our brain wants the brownie or the belt bar or the nuts or whatever it is that we're craving, but really our brain is needing something and it's kind of waving a flag and saying, Hey Sarah, Hey Sarah, like I need you, but you don't recognize that I really need you. So I'm going to go to something that does help me kind of take care of this dissonance that I'm feeling inside. And so it pushes those cravings so that you go and eat the food, right? The problem is it's very temporary fix because those things still exist. So then the cravings will come back later. 

So for her, I told her, I said, when you recognize the hunger cues coming on, first of all, I want you to label it either as physical hunger or emotional hunger. If it's emotional hunger, then I want you to write, I feel like eating, because I feel like that was such an effective tool for me because it gave me clues as to what my brain really wanted. And it could be less stress. I mean, if you write, I feel like eating because this isn't an analytical thing where you have to sit there and kind of think, what is my brain really wanting right now? Like that almost feels hard because it's like, no, I haven't been in touch with my brain for a long time. So what does it mean? Our brain will let us know. We've just got to give it avenues to do that. Some people are verbal processors. So they say it out loud. I feel like eating because, and it comes out for some people that writers, I feel like eating because this, I felt it was an effective tool. It doesn't work for everyone, but the fascinating thing was that what came out for me, it was different at different times of day. Sometimes at night, it was like, I really wanted physical rest. Like I wanted to sleep. And sometimes in the middle of the afternoon, it was like, I want my kids to stop fighting. Like I want less stress, less, uh, uh, conflict.  

Amber B 26:11 

Conflict? Yeah. 

Coach Sarah 26:14 

Um, sometimes it was that I needed a mental break. You know, sometimes it was that I needed to resolve something. And so anyway, there's different clues that will come out from doing that. Uh, another example that I like to use a lot with, with my clients is, um, I think this is very common for many people is they kind of have a sweet tooth right after dinner. And so they eat dinner and then they're craving something sweet, whether it's chocolate or candy or ice cream or something. And this happened to me for years and I didn't quite understand what was going on. Uh, now I do, but I didn't back then. And so as I, as I look at things, you know, I would sit down for dinner. And what happens is I'm actually giving myself a physical break. I'm sitting down, I'm having a mental break from, you know, the different work and things that I'm doing. I'm also connecting with my husband, my kids, there's laughter, there's enjoyment. I like cooking. And so it's kind of a creative or entertaining process for me. And then this comes to the end and my brain is sensing, Hey, like I really like this. Like, let's just prolong this longer. 

Yes. Like, please give me a longer break, Sarah. And it knows that if it's going to give me cravings for broccoli, I'm not really going to give into that. But if it pushes cravings for chocolate or for certain candies that I like, it is much more likely that I will give into that and prolong this dinner experience that my brain has really enjoyed. And it isn't that our brain is trying to sabotage us or sabotage our goals. Really. I truly believe that we're partners with our brain and our brain wants us to feel good, enjoy life, manage the stresses or trials or things that come. And it's just trying to do that. But sometimes it doesn't have the tools to do it effectively.  

Amber B 27:45 

Yeah. 

Coach Sarah 27:46 

So as far as like tools to really help with overeating, emotional eating, first of all, recognize physical hunger, emotional hunger. Second of all, figure out if it's emotional hunger, figure out what your brain is seeking. And Amber, you do a beautiful job of this, of teaching people to pause. And I think that is key in, okay, I have emotional hunger. I recognize it. Let me pause. Because sometimes just that pause and acknowledging what is going on, like, because you teach, okay, pause and then name all of the feelings that you're feeling so, or all the emotions that are coming up. And with that, it's almost like you're telling your brain, Hey brain, I recognize what you're feeling right now. You're feeling stressed. You have like 50 things on your to-do list and you only have an hour left before dinner, you know? And, and it's just acknowledging and your brain will be like, thank you for hearing me. And sometimes that alone will dissipate the cravings. And when we don't have cravings, are we going to overeat? No, like we don't. 

If we don't have cravings, are we going to emotionally eat? No, we don't. So it's kind of a process of figuring out what works for me personally to dissipate the cravings. So first you recognize what your brain needs, and then there's different tools that you can use that really are effective for each different person or different situations. You know, there's meditation, there's grounding, there's, you have an amazing emotional eating course that goes over, I would say 10 of the most effective tools for dissipating cravings. But I think just to get started, that is where people should start emotional hunger, physical hunger, and then figuring out what your brain needs.  

Amber B 29:12 

Yeah.  As you were speaking, I kind of had the image of like the metaphor of, it's almost like when you have a toddler and you're like trying to do something and the toddler's just like, mom, mom, mom, mom. And they're like the toddler wants something, but they don't have a lot of the language to be able to exactly say what they want. And you're like, you know, you give the toddler a lollipop, try to shove it in the toddler's mouth. And that's not what the toddler needs or wants. And so the toddler's like, mom, mom, mom. And it's like, it takes that time of like turning to the toddler, actually getting on their level, like asking them, okay, what do you want? Like trying to understand what they want and then providing that for them. And I think it's very similar to how we work a lot of times with our brain is our brain, like you said, is trying to get our attention and we kind of shove it down just like you're okay, you're okay. Or we try to satisfy it with food as if that's what our brain needs. But in reality, if we can really take the time to pause, we can take the time to reflect what, what do I actually need right now? How can I give that to myself? How can I process that emotion? Then the, then the toddler gets quiet and is okay and isn't sitting there like hitting at your leg going, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom. Um, anyway, it was just funny. As you were saying that, that was like very clearly the metaphor that popped into my head.  

Coach Sarah 30:22 

Yes. I think that's a beautiful metaphor.  

Amber B 30:24 

You know I love metaphors.  

Coach Sarah 30:26 

Yes.  

Amber B 30:27 

Oh, good. 

Coach Sarah 30:29 

Oh, I was just going to say with that, I think too that the beautiful part about working through our eating patterns, whatever they might be, you know, sometimes it's under eating, sometimes it's overeating. Sometimes it's emotional eating. Sometimes it's knowing how to fuel ourselves, you know, physically. And sometimes it's the over desire with those trigger foods. And, and the beautiful thing about working through that is that usually we are working on other parts of our life as well. So I feel like my whole life, my relationships, my productivity, my self-worth, my confidence has improved because I've worked on my relationship with food. And it's, it's honestly such an inspiring work because they're all interrelated.  

Amber B 31:06 

For sure. Absolutely. One question I had for you is, and I kind of wonder how this like relates to this conversation of overeating, but I do deal with some clients who are, and then the distinction between emotionally and physical or emotional hunger and physical hunger. There are some clients who are so afraid of being hungry. Like I get this from some clients. They're like, they're, they're actually fearful of being hungry, that they will overeat in order to never have to experience hunger. How do you see that relating to that conversation of physical versus emotional hunger?  

Coach Sarah 31:39 

Okay. That, that is really a common thing. There are many people who do fear hunger and I personally would, I'd be really curious to know what is causing the fear. I think on a logical level, we all know that we can handle hunger, right? All of us have gone through hours where we've been hungry and we've made it through life. And so, but on a subconscious level, there are reasons why they are fearing hunger. And I would be more curious about what is causing the fear than what is causing the hunger or abating the hunger. And so, so many times fearing hunger isn't about the food. Some common things that I have seen in clients are, you know, they fear hunger because they worry that the hunger will lead them to do something. So for example, they worry about getting grumpy, or they worry about being at work and not having energy or maybe the mental focus that they need. A very common one is that sometimes they worry that hunger will cause them to overeat and they'll lose control. And then they'll sabotage their goals by overeating or by making food choices that, you know, don't really align with their goals.  

It was interesting. Last year I was working with several clients and I saw a common theme among them, which sometimes happens. And sometimes it doesn't when you're working with clients. But last year in one of the groups that we were doing in Biceps After Babies, there was a lot of fear of hunger because of food rules. And so these women had, and they were all very unique and individual, but they had created so many food labeling rules as far as good food and bad foods in their brain that it caused a lot of food confusion. And so when hunger came, they had to decide if they were going to prep all of their food to meet like the nutrition criteria that they had for themselves, or if they were going to eat other foods. But then if they ate other foods, then it created this dissonance inside afterwards. Like they didn't follow, you know, their, whatever it was, vegan, keto, all organic, whole 30, you know, whatever it might be. And the fear really wasn't about the hunger. The fear was about all the confusion that they were going to have to face. And their brain knew like, this is an overload of emotions, of confusion, of workload, of pressure. And so their brain would pump out fear about hunger when really it wasn't even about the food. 

Right. And so I think that's, that's something interesting to be aware of. And then also like, I do just have to address, like there are some people who have fear of hunger because they grew up with a scarcity of food or they were in situations where they felt hungry and it was a negative or oppressive situation. And so those are all things that need to be taken care of, right? Our fears, if we're living from a platform of fear, it never produces our best actions. Our best platform to work from is peace. We make our most intentional decisions. We feel the most empowered. We align our best actions with our goals when we are living from the foundation of peace. And so really digging into what is causing your fears. If you have, if you do have a fear of hunger, like what is causing that fear and creating peace around that will, I think will really empower people. And so, so I think with that, it's really good to also look at what is your relationship with food and is that creating more fear and how do you change that relationship so that you can feel calm around food so that you can feel calm approaching holidays so that you can feel empowered being around? Like I can be around a whole tray of brownies and know, okay, I'm not going to eat eight of those. I'm just going to eat one and I'm going to be able to go on with my night and feel good about it. 

And for a lot of people, it isn't so much about the overeating, like they hate the overeating and they hate the weight gain or that it's sabotaging their health goals or how they just feel bloated and yucky after they do that. But for many people, it's on a much deeper level. Well, really, they just really want to have a relationship with themselves where they can trust themselves around food and creating that is such a beautiful thing because it seeps into other areas of life where if we can trust ourselves around food and feel peaceful around that, we can also trust ourselves in a lot of other situations with our parenting, with our work relationships, with our productivity is one that I really like and other things. And so, so I'm not sure if I answered your question or not, but I've had that tangent.  

Amber B 35:45 

That's so good. So good. Well, this has been fantastic. So much like applicable things that tools that people can use to be able to actually start to work on this. If this is something that you are struggling with, you know, Sarah has given you so many great tools that you can start to practice right today, right? Even just the little thing of just asking yourself that question, is this emotional hunger? Is this physical hunger is, is such a huge step in the direction of really being at more peace with food. Okay. So before we wrap up, I just want to give you anything else that you want to leave us. Any words of wisdom or advice that you want to leave?  

Coach Sarah 36:19 

Okay. Yes. I would love to give some tips for this because first of all, I just want to let everyone know that like, you really can change your relationship with food. Sometimes we just feel stuck in these eating patterns that we're in. And I just want to give you that hope it really is possible. And it isn't as difficult as you think. So I, let me define this just a little bit. Most people, not everyone, but most people come to me or to us for coaching with overeating because they want to lose weight or they want to maintain and they're overeating and sabotaging those goals. So these tips that I give is going to give, it's going to be in the perspective that, that this person wants to lose weight or at least maintain their weight. Sometimes there are reasons why other people come to me for coaching with overeating. A lot of those are more about food quality or about having the brain chatter stop. You know, food noise is a very common term right now. And those are all things that we address in our coaching realm. Right. And so, but for these tips, I kind of want to focus it on those people who want to lose weight or maintain their weight as well. Okay. 

So number one is collecting data. I talked about this before, but you have to determine if you're truly overeating or if you just perceive you are overeating. So we have many women who come to us who are actually under eating and they think they are overeating, but they're coming to us and they're only eating 900 to a thousand calories or less, or maybe a little bit more. And you know, our calorie levels are dependent on our bodies, our muscle mass, our height, so many different things, but they are under consuming really what their body needs, but they feel like they're overeating because they eat too much and they gain weight, or they define their problem with overeating as I eat too much and I feel out of control. And therefore I don't trust myself around food. And with both of those realms, it feels miserable, right? It doesn't feel good if you're gaining weight because you perceive that you're eating too much. And it also doesn't feel good to feel out of control with food. And therefore you see overeating as a problem. And so with both of these, you need to collect data about your body. And I had a client just who started working with me about three weeks ago, and I'll just share this because I think this highlights this example, but she came to me and she said, I live a very, very, she lives a very busy lifestyle, right? She has a lot of stress. She doesn't get a lot of sleep. And she said, I tend to overeat every night. So I kind of set these goals at night and I'll eat just a little bit. And then I'll just eat more and more. And she said, I just don't, I don't know how to change that pattern. And so as we collected data for two to three weeks, do you know what we found? It was amazing to see that she was one of these where she had a lot of food rules and she was so busy. She just didn't know what to eat, what not to eat. And so she just wouldn't eat a lot. And so she was under consuming throughout the day, had a very active lifestyle a lot of, you know, different situations going on in her life with work and children and, you know, different things. And so by the time the night came, she would eat and then she would overeat. And I asked her, I said, I said, you know, do you think that you're overeating at night is possibly because your body and brain are tired? Like maybe you're physically hungry because you haven't been given appropriate calories throughout the day, as well as perhaps maybe your brain is physically, mentally, emotionally tired from all that you've been through throughout the day. 

And it was fascinating to watch as we started collecting this data about her and also shifting a few things, you know, she started eating more throughout the day. We kind of calmed some of those food rules so that we could first look at quantity rather than the quality of food. And we calmed down that noise chatter in her brain, as far as what should I eat? What shouldn't I eat? And let's just eat and get some quantity and see how that feels. And she said, Sarah, I can't believe how much more energy I have, how much better I feel and how the night cravings have dissipated. And so the overeating really isn't a problem when we don't have cravings, right? So that's a little example. So we've got to collect data. Now, I just have to say like the best place to learn how to collect data is in MACROS 101. I've never seen a program that does it better as far as learning what data to collect and how to analyze it from a curious mindset rather than, you know, a diet or mindset or all these rules or different things. But for starters, start with this. Just track your normal intake of eating for a couple of weeks, you know, two to three weeks. Do not set any rules. Don't set a calorie level. Don't try to hit a certain protein level. Like just eat your normal way of eating for two to three weeks. And then as you look at that, you know, track it. And if you have overwhelm with tracking, that's another thing that I just want you to know you can resolve. Like tracking does not have to be complicated or laborious or time consuming. It really doesn't. It can be super simple and easy. But with that, I always like to look at five things in comparison to my eating. So I look at energy, mental clarity, moods, gut pain. And when I say gut pain, like bloating, gas, things like that, and weight, you know, am I losing weight, gaining weight, maintaining weight? So this data, just watching those trends helps you see if what you're regularly eating aligns with how you want to feel. And that is powerful. Again, it was one of those things that helped me realize I could eat one, two or three brownies and not gain weight. Like, whoa, I recognize that if I eat three brownies, I actually would feel more not as productive, not as motivated. I didn't have as much energy the next morning, which was also a fascinating thing for me to recognize. But do you see how empowering that is for me to recognize what food does for me rather than living in that limbo of not knowing? OK, so that's the first step. Sorry, that was kind of long, but I really wanted to explain that a little bit better. So number one is collect data about your unique body.  

Okay, number two is we've got to take care of physical hunger appropriately. Right. And recognize that hunger can come sometimes because you have a lack of calories or nutrition that you need. But sometimes hunger comes because you don't have enough fiber or you don't have enough sleep or you don't have enough water or things that really make you feel satiated. And so take care of physical hunger.  

Okay, the third thing is identify your hunger cues as emotional hunger and physical hunger. We've talked about that before. That is essential because you take care of physical hunger in one way. You take care of emotional hunger in a different way. Now, if overeating is an issue after you've worked through these things, then identify your patterns. Like, where is your overeating popping up in your life? Is it, you know, at home? Is it at night? Is it at work? Is it only on the weekends? Is it just in the afternoon right before your kids go home from school? Is it late at night when you're alone? Look at the external factors and internal factors. Internal factors would be like, is always when you're feeling stressed, is always when you're feeling tired, is always when you're with other people and you're feeling a little bit of social anxiety. So look at the external and internal factors. OK.  

The fifth step is to pick one simple pattern. So maybe you recognize your overeating is happening in the afternoons and evenings and weekends. Just pick one. OK, maybe just focus on the afternoons. When those hunger cues come up in the afternoon, I want you to pause. Now, you don't have to pause, like run away from your kids or anything like that. Pause for five seconds and just name all the emotions that are going on in your body. OK, that's all it takes, just about five seconds. But what that does, one, it gives you clues for what your brain needs and what your brain is experiencing. And two, it acknowledges to your brain that you hear it. And that acknowledgement helps you develop a relationship with your brain that is so important to overcome overeating, emotional eating, a negative relationship with food. You and your brain have to partner together because your relationship with food starts in your brain. Whatever is going on internally will manifest externally. So you acknowledging all of those emotions is really powerful for your relationship with your brain. And then you can start to use some tools to take care of what your brain needs or what your brain is experiencing at that time. And when you do that, those cravings diminish.  

Now, there are a lot of tools that can be effective. And as I mentioned before, Amber has a great emotional eating course that goes over what I say are the ten most effective tools. But different tools work for different people. Just a few tools that work for me would be one of my favorites is I sit down on the couch for five minutes and I allow myself just to rest. That has been powerful for me. It took me a long, long time to develop the skill of allowing myself to sit down and take a break. But I can't tell you how often I will sit down and do that. And the cravings will diminish. Another one that I really like is writing. I pull out a piece of paper and I just say I feel like eating because and I just let my brain free, right? And it might take a minute. I'm not talking about like 30 minute journaling session. These are quick tools. And another one that I really like is I again name all those emotions. I just keep naming them and I just say, yeah, I recognize I'm feeling stressed. I'm feeling overwhelmed. It's going to be OK. And I kind of talk to myself.  

And then, you know, there's there are a host of others that really work like sometimes I like meditation. I always like prayer. There's breathing techniques, stepping outside. There's things that really work effectively. One thing I would caution all of you is that when your brain is in kind of that emotional hunger and it's craving food, it doesn't want more work. So if you really don't like walking, you say, well, when I have emotional hunger, I'm going to go out on a walk. Your brain is going to be like, no, we're not going to. I'm going to push even harder for chocolate because your brain doesn't want more workload. It doesn't want to have to motivate you to do something else. I joked earlier that I set hundreds of goals to become a reader because I just knew that if I became a reader, that whenever I had cravings to overeat, I could just open a book and it would take care of those cravings, right? I I like reading informational books, but I just don't love reading fictional books. And so that never worked for me. It was more of a workload to my brain. And so my brain never attached to it. But for me to say, hey, go sit on the couch for five minutes, my brain is like, thank you. That's a rest. It's a break. I don't have to do anything. OK, so so find tools that are easy for your brain and again, develop that relationship with your brain. So I hope this has been helpful. Amber, thanks so much for letting me come on the podcast. I always love talking about this. And we're going to have to do a follow up because there's so many little caveats in here that we could dive into even further.  

Amber B 46:45 

Thanks, Sarah, for being here. 

Coach Sarah 46:46 

You're welcome. Thanks.  

Amber B 46:49 

That may be an episode that you may need to listen to a couple of times because Sarah really gave some great tips and some great insight into why we overeat, how to start to recognize some of the difference between your emotional hunger and your physical hunger and then things that you can start to practice and do to really get out of that, you know, binging and restrict cycle that so many women find themselves in. And if you're wanting to come and get coached through this and gain some of those tools that Sarah talked about, the ability to be able to gather that data, look at it as a macro scientist. Right. There's a lot of the tools that were helpful for Sarah that are inside of MACROS 101 alongside with the mindset work. You know, she said that was that was the thing that made the difference is the tools, the stress, the science, the strategy alongside with the mental work. That is entirely the work that we do inside MACROS 101. So you can get on the interest list by going to bicepsafterbabies.com/waitlist. And we'd love to see you inside MACROS 101. That wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber. Now go out and be strong because remember, my friend, you can do anything.  

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