350: 20 Lessons In 20 Years Of Marriage with Taylor Brueseke

Introduction 

You're listening to Biceps After Babies Radio Episode 350.

Hello and welcome to Biceps After Babies Radio. A podcast for ladies who know that fitness is about so much more than pounds lost or PR's. It's about feeling confident in your skin and empowered in your life. I'm your host Amber Brueseke, a registered nurse, personal trainer, wife and mom of four. Each week my guests and I will excite and motivate you to take action in your own personal fitness as we talk about nutrition, exercise, mindset, personal development and executing life with conscious intention. If your goal is to look, feel and be strong and experience transformation from the inside out, you my friend are in the right place. Thank you for tuning in. Now, let's jump into today's episode.

Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to another episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm your host, Amber Brueseke, and I am in the room with my better half, my husband, Taylor Brueseke.  

Taylor Brueseke 01:00 

Hi.  

Amber B 01:01 

Hey. So excited to have you back on the podcast. This is a very special episode because the day after this podcast episode comes out will be our 20th anniversary.  

Taylor Brueseke 01:12 

Boom, baby. 

Amber B 01:13 

Can't believe it. It's flown by. I got married at age 20, and I'm 40 now, which means as of right now, I have been married as long as I was not married, which is kind of weird to say. But what I thought would be fun to do to kind of celebrate this anniversary was to write down some of the lessons that we've learned in the last 20 years. So we are titling this 20 Lessons in 20 Years of Marriage. And I will say, as the two of us sat down and wrote a lot of these lessons out, most of them we learned in the last two, three years. A little bit.  

Taylor Brueseke 01:52 

I mean, I think we've been, you're constantly learning, but the pace of learning has grown exponentially in the last several years.  

Amber B 02:01 

Yes. The first 16 years of our marriage was just about survival. You know, I married TJ when he was, right before he took the MCAT.  

Taylor Brueseke 02:10 

Yeah, the Medical College Admissions Test.  

Amber B 02:12 

Yes. It was the very, very beginning of his training. He took the MCAT, went to four years of medical school, three years of residency, three years of fellowship, and then, you know, had four kids in there, survived on, you know, $50,000 a year incomes.  

Taylor Brueseke 02:25 

Just a few things going on. 

Amber B 02:25 

With four kids in California. I mean, it was a lot of just survival. He was working like 80 hours a week. It was just a lot. And so the first many years of our marriage were a lot about survival. And I feel like the last couple of years, we've had a lot of growth and a lot of intentionality around our relationship and improving and strengthening our relationship. So a lot of these lessons really come from the last couple of years.  

Taylor Brueseke 02:48 

That's fair.  

Amber B 02:49 

So, should we dive in?  

Taylor Brueseke 02:50 

Yeah, I think your listeners are going to get to know you a little bit here. 

Amber B 02:53 

Yeah, open up a little bit.  

Taylor Brueseke 02:54 

Could be real.  

Amber B 02:55 

Okay, number one, the first one is to speak honestly. And I think this one is like, can kind of seem like a, yeah, duh, like being honest is a good thing. But will you kind of talk a little bit about how this has shown up for us and why this was such a, an aha moment for us a couple of years ago?  

Taylor Brueseke 03:14 

Yeah. I mean, I think I kind of grew up with the idea that good marriages don't fight. Right. Like I actually remember like right before we got married, the guy that did the ceremony was like, let me give you some advice. Never go to bed angry with the other person. And like, you know, I guess that meant, I don't know exactly what that meant. I mean, you're supposed to like work it out before you go to sleep or something like that. Or you just weren't ever supposed to be angry at the other person. It was, I don't know. I remember him saying that. And I remember, you know, just, you know, my growing up years like, um, conflict was just not a big part of what we saw in my family. 

Amber B 03:48 

Yeah, me either. 

Taylor Brueseke 03:49 

Like we were kind of conflict avoidant. Um, and so, you know, I had that kind of idea or mindset that our relationship really shouldn't have conflict in it either. And so there was something that we were fighting about that something was wrong. And, um, what I've kind of realized in the last years is like, uh, conflict is inherent in the fact that there's two people and it's not necessarily something to be afraid of or to run away from. Um, and that sometimes, uh, it's actually the harder way to go because, um, I don't know, at least for me, I, I tend to be the type of person that is very agreeable and I just would rather just kind of go with the flow than, you know.. 

Amber B 04:31 

Stir the pot.  

Taylor Brueseke 04:31 

Stir the pot. Yeah. Especially if the spot was spicy.  

Amber B 04:34 

Am I the pot? Am I spicy pot?  

Taylor Brueseke 04:35 

Sometimes. 

Amber B 04:39 

I think I'm a little spicier than you are.  

Taylor Brueseke 04:41 

Yeah. And so, uh, I just kind of got in the habit, I think of, of just holding onto things rather than saying them outright.  

Amber B 04:48 

Um, so like, so not lying, but it's like not bringing things to the forefront that you were thinking. And we both do this. It's not actually you think, but what I would, I would think something or have something in my mind, but then I would couch it in a different way to make it kind of skirt skirt around the issue. Right. Like not be direct about the issue. 

Taylor Brueseke 05:09 

Right.  

Amber B 05:09 

Try to try to subdivision a little bit and like get you to like think the way that I want you to think without just coming out and being honest about the way that I felt about something.  

Taylor Brueseke 05:17 

Yeah. 

Amber B 05:18 

And that's been kind of a game changer of, of realizing how often I do that, how often I am not just straightforward and honest about the things that I'm experiencing or thinking or what do I, what I want and just try to get at it in different, in different like, some of these. 

Taylor Brueseke 05:33 

Yeah. Like, I mean, a good example, I recently wanted to buy something and like, I didn't really commit to myself that I actually wanted to buy it. This is like a dynamic relationship for years where like, instead of me saying like, I want to buy this thing and then coming to tell you and say, Hey, this is the thing that I want. I would like, I would just kind of propose these things to you and you know, it wouldn't be nice if we had, you know, and then I would wait for you to say, Oh, that sounds nice. So that doesn't sound nice. You know? And then when you didn't say that you wanted to buy the things that I wanted to buy, I would blame you basically for not,  

Amber B 06:03 

Then you get mad at me about me for not letting you buy it. 

Taylor Brueseke 06:05 

Not knowing that I wanted to buy this thing. And then, yeah, you didn't let me buy it. And you know, that whole, like my wife won't let me story like is, um, alive and well in our culture. And I think a lot of it comes from, you know, just being dishonest, right? Like, you know, owning what you actually want, telling the person what you actually want and then letting them agree or disagree with you, you know. 

Amber B 06:26 

Um, that's something that we've been working on a lot. Okay. Number two, cause there's 20 of these, we kind of got to move through them. Uh, so number two is seek to understand and then to be understood. And I think Stephen Covey said this. I don't, I think it's like, yeah, anyway, it's a really famous quote, but it, it has been revolutionary for me because I definitely am someone who wants somebody else to understand how I see things or how I feel about things. And when I pause and really ask myself, do I first understand the other person and then seek to be understood, things work much better than when we're just like trying to force our perspective onto somebody else. Because if I can sit there and I feel like you don't understand me, but I, first I say, okay, wait, I got to understand him first. Then you naturally want to understand me afterwards. And we both get to be understood. 

Taylor Brueseke 07:17 

Yeah. I think this one always gets me with, um, you know, the realization is that like everybody does something for a reason. They say something for a reason, they think something for a reason. And I don't necessarily know what that reason is, but you do. And, or maybe not even aware of it, but you have a reason.  

Amber B 07:25 

Yeah. 

Taylor Brueseke 07:26 

And so when the partner says something to you that you're like, just totally disagree with, or like, doesn't make sense or isn't the thing you want, my inclination is to just be like, well, let me tell you what I think. Right. But it.. 

Amber B 07:45 

‘Cause you understand how I feel that you would see it the same way. 

Taylor Brueseke 07:47 

That’s right, if you just knew how I felt. You would think the same thing.  

Amber B 07:50 

Yeah, obviously. 

Taylor Brueseke 07:51 

Obviously. But, um, clearly that's not nearly as helpful as pausing and saying, well, okay, there's a reason she said what she said. Maybe I should ask her, you know, what do you mean by that? Why did you say that? What are the things that you were thinking about that, you know, brought you to that point? Right. 

Amber B 08:04 

Yeah, that's really good. Okay. Number three, don't forget that you married someone different than you on purpose. And I think this one is, you know, it's that classic adage that, um, opposite opposites attract. And it's really true. We tend to be attracted to someone who is not the same as us. And that is really exciting early on in a relationship and in a courtship. And then the longer you're with somebody, those are the very same things that start to get on your nerves and start to grate you. And it's important to remember, like you married that person who's different than you on purpose. You know, a good example, I don't know if this dynamic is in our relationship, but, um, I've seen it other people's relationship where someone who is very like predictable and plans a lot, marry someone who is spontaneous because they're attracted to that quality. It's fun. It's exciting. It's different from what they know. 

Taylor Brueseke 08:55 

Yeah, bring something new to the relationship. 

Amber B 08:55 

 And yet later on, that's what drives them nuts because they want everything to be predictable and consistent. And this person's wanting to be spontaneous. And now that same quality is annoying to them. And so I have to remind myself that I married someone who's different than me, who thinks differently than me on purpose. I did it on purpose. And that those same qualities are some of the, you know, the best qualities about you, even if they are different than me.  

Taylor Brueseke 09:23 

Yeah. I don't know if I have a whole lot to add about that. You know, I'm trying to think if I could offer a quick example, um, the money one comes to mind. You know, I mean, it's just like, um, I think I tend to be more of the spender and you tend to be more of the, yeah, definitely the saver.  

Amber B 09:39 

That's the nice way to say it. 

Taylor Brueseke 09:41 

But you know, I mean, part of me, I think just from my childhood and growing up years, like really wanted to be with somebody that was going to help me temper my, my spending habits and, you know, help provide financial stability that comes with doing that. Um, and yet that's the same thing that drives me nuts when I want to buy something and she says no.  

Amber B 09:59 

And I wanted to like live a little bit. Right. And like you did fun things and you spent money and that was exciting to me. And then it also is the same thing that like now freaks me out. Cause I'm like, Oh, you're going to spend all the money. Right. But it's the same thing that attracted me to you in the first place. So, okay. Number four is you don't have to be the same person.  

Taylor Brueseke 10:21 

I think this is kind of the same idea. You know, it's, if you are honest with your partner about what you want, what you think, what you do, how you'd like to spend your time, you'll, you'll, you'll naturally do different things. Um, you know, I think where my mind starts to go with this was like some of our habits or hobbies, like, you know, that we had used to have,  

Amber B 10:39 

You tell hobbies, you have to tell the hobby story. 

Taylor Brueseke 10:40 

I just think that we grow together.  

Amber B 10:42 

This was like early on in our marriage. What did you used to say to me all the time?  

Taylor Brueseke 10:45 

We need to have a hobby.  

Amber B 10:46 

We need to have a hobby.  

Taylor Brueseke 10:47 

Yeah. 

Amber B 10:48 

We need to have a hobby that we do together. And you used to always like bring this to me cause we like, didn't have a hobby that we did together.  

Taylor Brueseke 10:53 

I just wanted you to do all my hobbies.  

Amber B 10:54 

We just need to do a hobby together. Well, this was, this is always the funny story I tell about that. It's like, you were always like, we need to do a hobby together. We need to do a hobby together. And you wanted me to like work on cars with you or like build a computer with you. And I didn't want to do any of those hobbies until you just decided to do one of my hobbies, which is weightlifting. And that works much better. 

Taylor Brueseke 11:13 

Yeah, that works for a long time.  

Amber b 11:15 

So it's like, if you want to do a hobby, just do my hobby.  

Taylor Brueseke 11:18 

Yeah. Yeah. If you didn't catch some of the dynamic of this relationship before, you're catching it now.  

Amber B 11:23 

That is quintessential.  

Taylor Brueseke 11:25 

That is our relationship in a nutshell. Yeah. Um, but, um, right. So, um,  

Amber B 11:33 

You don't have to be the same person.  

Taylor Brueseke 11:34 

You don't have to be the same person. You don't actually have to do the same hobbies, but, um, I, you know, I mean, I'm trying to decide whether I should jump in about why I think hobbies together are important, but I'll just say briefly,  

Amber B 11:43 

I’m not saying it’s not important. 

Taylor Brueseke 11:44 

I just said, I'll just say briefly that I think we grow together when we do things together and not just, you know, as a couple, but as friends or whatever it is, right. You've become close to the people you spend time doing things with. So that's my rationale for hobbies. But, um, you know, if you are going to be different, if you do, you know, if you take that to an extreme where you do everything together, you know, or you spend every free moment. So, you know, if you go back, I'm kind of rambling a bit here, but I'll, I'll focus it in. If you go back a little bit to the, you know, 16 plus years of training and early, you know, parenting and everything else that we did, like free time for us was just exceedingly limited.  

Amber B 12:16 

So limited. 

Taylor Brueseke 12:17 

And so whatever free time I felt like I had, like, I felt like I needed to dedicate and devote to the family and be here to do that. And if that meant spending time with my wife, then that was also doing the hobby with my life with my wife, so.. 

Amber B 12:29 

It was like he was just very efficient.  

Taylor Brueseke 12:30 

Yeah. I mean, it was just nothing. 

Amber B 12:31 

You have four hours a week that you get to spend not in the hospital.  

Taylor Brueseke 12:35 

Right. And so, you know, um, at some point that led to this kind of like melting together of like, you know, uh, individuality into one person or into one relationship. Um, and you know, growing up a little bit, maturing a little bit and like being comfortable doing our own things separate together, separate from each other, I think has been a valuable skill or valuable.  

Amber B 12:55 

Yeah, it’s like we do some things together. We do some things like different or apart  

Taylor Brueseke 12:59 

Like at night when I want to watch a show and you don't want to watch my show, then I just go watch my own show  

Amber B 13:05 

Or surfing surfing by yourself sometimes.  

Taylor Brueseke 13:06 

Yeah.  

Amber B 13:07 

A lot of times. Yeah. Um, okay. Number five, there are seasons to your marriage. And I mean, I think in our marriage it is like very, very clear seasons. There was like the no kids applying to medical school season and then it was very short. And then there was like the med school season and then there was like the residency season and the fellowship season and then like the post-training season. And they, they have all, they're all very different and there were different requirements, different stressors, different, different, awesome parts about it. You know, I look, I look back, I think about when we first got married and we didn't have a bed for like our couch or we didn't have any furniture,  

Taylor Brueseke 13:46 

No furniture. We slept on the floor. We got a bunch of towels for our wedding present.  

Amber B 13:50 

We got so many towels for our wedding.  

Taylor Brueseke 13:51 

I don't know why we got so many towels, but we got like probably 30 towels for our wedding. 

Amber B 13:55 

You know, so many like there's how there's always like the one present where it's like everybody was on the same wavelength and they like all got towels for us. We got so many towels and we probably didn't. Your, your best friend bought us a bed, but we didn't have it delivered for like two or three weeks or something like that. Right. So our first couple of weeks of marriage, we took all those towels and we like,  

Taylor Brueseke 14:14 

We slept on them. 

Amber B 14:15 

We laid them out into a bed and we like slept on the towels and we didn't have a couch. We didn't have a table. We ate on the floor. We slept on the floor. We sat on the floor and then we laughed and made fun of like every time we would elevate a little bit, like when we got a couch, we like elevated it all on the floor. 

Taylor Brueseke 14:32 

We weren't on the floor. Now we were on the couch.  

Amber B 14:33 

Now we were on the couch. 

Taylor Brueseke 14:33 

Two feet off the ground.  

Amber B 14:34 

Instead of sitting on the floor to eat dinner, we finally got a table and had like chairs and like we got off the floor for like our bed and.  

Taylor Brueseke 14:40 

Just kept moving up in the world. 

Amber B 14:41 

So anyway, like I just think back and you know, there's, there's some nostalgia there of like, it was, life was a lot more simpler, simple, you know, we just had the two of us to take care of and yeah, we were dirt poor, had nothing, but there was a lot of fun that I, a lot of fun that happened during that time as well. You know, I went back to like the residency time and that was really hard, but there was some really great parts about that lifestyle as well. We had some really, really great friends. We had a really great community that was around us. Actually, all the places we went, we found really great communities. So, you know, I look back and I think, you know, there are great things about every season and there are negatives about every season. And if you can really focus on what are the great things about this season of our marriage and this season of our life, you know, that's how, how you don't get discouraged and you keep, keep moving forward.  

Taylor Brueseke 15:29 

I like that.  

Amber B 15:30 

Yeah. Okay. Number six is change is inevitable. And I think I'm specifically talking not about like external change, but like internal change of how we grow and evolve over time. And this expectation that like you're the partner you marry is going to be the same partner 20 years down the road. I think it's just, it's, it's a farce.  

Taylor Brueseke 15:48 

Yeah. 

Amber B 15:48 

If you actually are married and the person you married is 20 years later, the exact same person. I think that that is a shame.  

Taylor Brueseke 15:57 

Yeah. I can't imagine today. Like if I had to remarry, if I was remarrying a 20-year-old version of Amber in college, like, yeah, that would be weird. Yeah. Not just the age, but just the maturity.  

Amber B 16:07 

Yeah. You hope that you grow and you hope that you develop and then you hope that you understand more and you hope that you're a new person and that you're continually evolving. I mean, that's to me, that's the whole purpose of life is to continually evolve. And one of the great things about being married to someone is that you get to do that together. Yeah. And you don't look the same in your evolution. You don't look the same.  

Taylor Brueseke 16:23 

Yeah. And that's really what the marriage is about, right? Is to some extent it challenges you to grow, pressures you to develop and mature and do something else. And I think, you know, getting back to that conflict idea for the beginning is like, that's really what that's about, right? Like it's not arguing for argument's sake. It's, it's disagreeing for being a unique and different person who has a different way of thinking and doing things,  

Amber B 16:46 

Which broadens your perspective, right? It's because like we all have blind spots and being able to have two people in relationships. It's like the Swiss cheese analogy where if you have Swiss cheese and you have holes in each of the Swiss cheese, but you layer them together, you have less holes. It's like you provide perspective that I can't see.  

Taylor Brueseke 17:02 

Right. Which then allows you to reflect and decide who you want to be in that situation. 

Amber B 17:06 

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Number seven, I will do this because this is my losing strategy.  

Taylor Brueseke 17:10 

Oh, defensiveness? 

Amber B 17:11 

Defensiveness is a losing strategy. Uh, and the piece that has been really powerful for me is to ask, where's my partner right about me? We talked a little bit about this when I interviewed Jennifer Finlayson Fife on the podcast. We'll link that episode up in the show notes. It's a fantastic episode if you haven't listened to it. 

Taylor Brueseke 17:28 

She's amazing.  

Amber B 17:29 

JFF has been one of our mentors that has really improved and strengthened our marriage. So I would highly recommend going to listen to that episode first and then going and checking out any of her courses. We've taken, I think literally all of her courses. Um, fantastic, fantastic, um, mentor. But she talks about this concept of losing strategies, which basically means we all have ways that we try to get out of things. And the problem is, is that these are all losing strategies, meaning they are, they defeat us. They don't actually support or help us, but it's where we tend to go when we feel cornered or put in a box or like,  

Taylor Brueseke 18:03 

You're not getting your way.  

Amber B 18:15 

We're not getting our way. And for me, defensiveness is my losing strategy for sure. It's, it's something that I've had to work through. And so what that looks like is, and this is, this is probably why you feel like you can't be well is it's why you feel like you can't be honest because when you come to me with something that is, is something I won't like. 

Taylor Brueseke 18:22 

Scary or whatever. 

Amber B 18:23 

Yeah. I will get, I get super defensive and prickly and spicy, bite your head off, tell you why you're wrong. And you know, just defend, defend, defend, defend, because I can't be wrong. 

Taylor Brueseke 18:35 

Right.  

Amber B 18:36 

And that hits at like a core, my core fear, which is that I'm not good enough. Right. So you come to me and tell me something that like, maybe it's pointing out something that I'm not doing great. I defend, I go into defensiveness because I need to protect my, my self image to myself.  

Taylor Brueseke 18:51 

Could you just, would you mind closing the, uh, the mirror door and the shelf in the bathroom? I think about that all the time. I'm just like, what happens if I forget sometimes?  

Amber B 19:03 

Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. And so what I, what I have started to ask, I think that I got this from Jennifer Finlayson Fife is where is my partner right about me? So when you come to me and you say something and I immediately get defensive, that's my cue to stop and say, where is my partner right about me? Because there's probably things that you're seeing that I'm not seeing. And this is an opportunity for me to have my perspective broadened a little bit. And maybe you're not all right. You know, maybe you don't have exactly right.  

Taylor Brueseke 19:29 

Maybe it doesn't matter if the cabinet door is open or not,  

Amber B 19:31 

But there is probably some, there's an element of truth in there and, and that's where the gold is. And being willing to listen and hear for that element of truth is what allows me to continue to progress. So I really had to work at when I noticed defensiveness coming up in me to ask the question, where is he right about this?  

Taylor Brueseke 19:51 

And then on my side of that particular situation is realizing that that defensiveness is not actually about me. 

Amber B 19:57 

No. Yeah. It’s about me protecting myself. 

Taylor Brueseke 19:59 

It's not that I said the wrong thing or asked for the wrong way. You know, wanted something that was inappropriate or did it the wrong way. It's really just,  

Amber B 20:07 

Yeah. It's my, it's my core fear coming out. 

Taylor Brueseke 20:09 

Not to say that I can't be polite or respectful and appreciative and all those things while I'm doing that. Um, but yeah.  

Amber B 20:15 

Yeah. It's not that big. Okay. Number eight, the ability to repair is more important than the ability to get it right every time. 

Taylor Brueseke 20:22 

I think we got this from the, um, Instagram, the secure relationship stuff. Yeah. I like that a lot. It's just, you know, again, conflict is going to happen. You know, you're going to have arguments, things are going to go, um, you know, the way they're going to go. And sometimes they can be kind of rough, but the important part about that experience is that when you, that eventually that dust settles a little bit and then you repair that break in the relationship. 

Amber B 20:46 

Well, I think for me, so this goes into, again, like opening up my core fears. Um, I do have this need to like get it right. And it comes back to that need to feel like I'm enough. And so I got to get everything right. If I get everything right, then maybe I'll be good enough, you know? And so to me, it like, it was really, it did really weigh on me that like, what if I got it wrong? What if I said something to you wrong or what if I did it wrong? Or what if, and, and really understanding that it's not about like, you're going to get it wrong. Just accepting that I'm going to get it wrong. We're two human individuals trying to live together and partner together. I'm going to get it wrong. But the, the key is how quickly can you repair it when you do? And I want to give a tip because this isn't something that's been really helpful in our relationship as we worked out things is he mentioned it before of like using Marco Polo. 

So we will use Marco Polo to be able to sometimes have conversations about hard topics because it allows you to be able to speak without having the person right there or, or, or interrupting you or responding to you or having their energy directed at you. And you can just kind of speak and then you can take your time and listen and I can think and I can process what he's saying without having to be defensive or like respond immediately. I can actually think about my response. And so that's been something that's been really helpful for us when we're having difficult conversations and sometimes we'll do them over Marco Polo and that kind of just like lessens the tension a little bit and allows us to be able to have a little space as we're having these conversations.  

Taylor Brueseke 22:12 

Yeah. I like Marco Polo. That's helpful for that for sure. Yeah. It's the ability to pause and reflect before acting. 

Amber B 22:17 

Yeah. Before responding. Yeah. Yeah. 

Taylor Brueseke 22:19 

Yeah. It's good.  

Amber B 22:22 

Okay. Number nine, the thing that you're fighting about is probably not the real problem. 

Taylor Brueseke 22:30 

Give me an example.  

Amber B 22:32 

One that I can think of is back when I used to, well, I still do quite a bit of traveling with my business and there was some conflict that we had about the travel. At the end of the day, it wasn't actually about the travel itself. It was about some of the other stuff that it brought up when I went away or what I was doing when I was away. And that was something, it was like not actually the trip itself. The trip just kind of uncovered those issues. 

Taylor Brueseke 22:58 

Yeah, that's right. I remember that. Yeah. That's a good point. That's a good example. Yeah. 

Amber B 23:03 

Yeah. So usually I think that's a valuable thing when you're fighting and stopping and being like, What’s underneath this?  

Taylor Brueseke 23:09 

What are we really talking about?  

Amber B 23:10 

Yeah. What's underneath this that we're really having a conversation about? We're not having a conversation. That's the problem. It's like we're talking about this, this thing that's really clear and apparent and it's like this one situation that's easy to talk about. It's harder to start to figure out what's underneath this. Right. 

Taylor Brueseke 23:28 

Yep. Yeah. And that is hard because sometimes it's not even clear to yourself. 

Amber B 23:33 

Oh yeah. Usually I think it's not even clear to me.  

Taylor Brueseke 23:34 

Yeah. You just know that you've heard about you don't like it. You're just not sure. But like taking the moment and sometimes many moments of like stillness and introspection to go back and like try to figure out what it is you don't like about that thing and why it is this, that's a whole different ballgame. 

Amber B 23:50 

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Number 10, what's the positive thing about the thing that annoys you? I think for this, I mean this is kind of the same idea. You marry someone different than you on purpose, but it's been really helpful for me to when there's like things that annoy you, recognizing that again, those are some of the things that I, that are the best parts about you as well. And that you married that person on purpose for that thing. And maybe it annoys you at this point, but it has its redeeming qualities. You know, case in point, you liking to spend money. This is, this has been something in our marriage for a really long time is you will like not want, you will want to buy something. I will not want to buy it because it scares me. Uh, and then you will, we will end up buying it and then I will love it. And I will really appreciate that we have it. 

Taylor Brueseke 24:43 

There are many examples. 

Amber B 24:44 

I could like list so many examples. The, I don't know, like looking around the room, the outdoor speakers, the car, the TV, the phone, the Mac, the Mac book. I mean like the nice bed. So many, like really you look around our house and like anything nice was probably his idea and I probably fought against it and I probably really appreciate it today.  

Taylor Brueseke 25:10 

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. I mean, you know, for me it's like, uh, it's, it's, it's like the multitasking. Like, you know, it's like sometimes, you know, I keep, I keep going back to this, but like, it's like the thing that gets left open, um, in the, in the bathroom,  

Amber B 25:24 

That really knows you. I don’t do that often. 

Taylor Brueseke  25:25 

But it's the same, but it's that same, it's that same ability to like just get stuff done that is like, you know, that lets that go. Right. It's like Amber's mind's off into something else already. And like, just doesn't even cross her mind. You know, it's not that she didn't remember that I wanted her to do that. It's just, she's already on to something done or raising four kids, you know, running a business and, and somehow is able to do all that, all that while at the same time also being, you know, present for her family. So, you know, that's not something that like, you can't have everything, you know, it's like the thing that comes with this is the thing that allows that.  

Amber B 26:05 

Yeah. So what you're saying is like, I get so much stuff done, but the way I'm able to get it done is I can't care about every little thing. And so sometimes I leave the thing open.  

Taylor Brueseke 26:12 

You didn’t quite pull the car in far enough. 

Amber B 26:15 

Stop. That happened yesterday.  

Taylor Brueseke 26:16 

How does she park the car? Methodically, deliberately, slowly, carefully reviewing the entry to make sure that we're far enough into the garage that the door can close. How does Amber park the car?  

Amber B 26:29 

She marks it.  

Taylor Brueseke 26:30 

In the garage. She gets it. On to the next thing.  

Amber B 26:34 

But there's a reason, friends, that one of us is a surgeon and one of us is not. I mean, this was an aha moment for me. I tell my team all the time, I'm like, nothing we do is life threatening. Like, we don't have to, like, anything can wait. You don't have to do anything perfect. Nobody's going to die if you make a mistake in the business. And I say that all the time to my team. And then the day that I realized that, like, you don't have that same luxury, because when you're in the OR, if you make a mistake, someone very well could die. Someone very well could get injured, right? It is life or death what you're doing. And I have the utmost respect for you, because that is not how I go through my day. I go through my day like a bull, and I try to shop, and I, like, get it all done, and then, like, just push my way through. And if I break a few dishes along the way, it's okay. And that is not the way that you show up. You, like, and that is why you are such a good surgeon. I would be a terrible surgeon.  

Taylor Brueseke 27:26 

Yeah.  

Amber B 27:27 

No one would want to go to me. 

Taylor Brueseke 27:28 

And I probably would be a really bad CEO, because, like, I just…  

Amber B 27:31 

Everything has to be perfect and methodical. Yeah. And I just… Oh my gosh, can I tell a story about the chair?  

Taylor Brueseke 27:37 

Yeah, sure. 

Amber B 27:38 

Okay, so this is a great example of a… So this was back when we were in med school, and super poor, had two kids, and we had this table of chairs. Did we get them from Craigslist?  

Taylor Brueseke 27:50 

Well, the chairs came from Craigslist, for sure.  

Amber B 27:52 

Okay. The table might have come from my parents. 

Taylor Brueseke 27:53 

I think the parents might have given us… Yeah.  

Amber B 27:54 

So anyway, we had this table of chairs, and the chairs… It was a Queen Anne wood chair. Yeah, like, super old-fashioned style. 

Taylor Brueseke 28:01 

Yeah, old-fashioned, but nice wood.  

Amber B 28:03 

Yeah, they were nice wood, but the… I wanted to reupholster the…  

Taylor Brueseke 28:07 

Yeah, the upholstery was super old.  

Amber B 28:09 

Yeah, it was old and ugly, and it didn't match or whatever. So I looked up and figured out… Learned how to, like, reupholster. You just get some, like, fabric, and you just, like, slap it on over, and then you, like, staple gun it to the bottom, right? Like, not very hard. So we sat down to do this. So I got all the fabric, got the staple gun. So we sat down, a nice, like, little couple day…  

Taylor Brueseke 28:29 

Six chairs. Eight chairs. Might have been eight chairs.  

Amber B 28:30 

In the living room. And we start, like, wrapping these chairs, wrapping the upholstery around them. And I'm, like, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. Ready? Done. Next one. Shoot, shoot, shoot. He is still on the first corner. 45 minutes. I'm not… That is not an exaggeration. I, like, looked at my clock. It was 45 minutes on one corner. He kept, like, folding and refolding and trying different ways, because he wanted it to lay just, like, just so.  

Taylor Brueseke 29:00 

That's right.  

Amber B 29:01 

And just exact. 

Taylor Brueseke 29:01 

That's right.  

Amber B 29:02 

And 45 minutes.  

Taylor Brueseke 29:04 

I think it was just the one corner of the first thing. Like, I feel like I was done with the first one, but I didn't like the way that the last corner was lined up after I had put all four corners together. 

Amber B 29:11 

That may be it. I just remember it took you, like, three times as long to do one chair as it took me. And I was, like, what's wrong with it?  

Taylor Brueseke 29:20 

The microcosm of our relationship.  

Amber B 29:21 

Oh, my gosh. I should have known at that point that this was, like, what was going to come to be for the rest of our relationship. And, I mean, that is just, like you said, a microcosm of our relationship. Like, you are so methodical. You are so precise. You are so exact. Again, it's what makes you a fantastic surgeon. And I am, like, let's get the dang thing done. Who cares if it's, like, perfect? And that's what makes me a really good business owner.  

Taylor Brueseke 29:45 

Business owner, mom, and everything else. Like, yeah. Managing chaos requires an ability to juggle multiple things at one time.  

Amber B 29:53 

Yeah. Okay. Number 11 is be intentional about determining the roles in your marriage. The less you just default, the more you can create the relationship that you want. Do you want to take this one?  

Taylor Brueseke 30:07 

Excuse me. I think this is from the idea that, well, there's a couple of thoughts that come to mind with this one. But the first one that comes up is when we were in one of our therapy lessons, our therapy sessions, our therapist gave us, like, a list of, like, common household items, their household responsibilities. And it was very long. It was, like, two or three pages long. So it was, like, everything. Yeah. It was everything from paying the bills to folding the socks, you know.  

Amber B 30:30 

Or, like, calling the dentist.  

Taylor Brueseke 30:31 

Right. Yes. All those kind of things that just need to be done. And the invitation was to, like, write down who, generally speaking, does these different things. And the point of the activity was not to say, like, you know, you have to do this or you have to do that. But it's just to identify the fact that, you know, in your relationship, somebody does these things.  

Amber B 30:51 

Somebody is doing them. Currently, is it the person that you want to be?  

Taylor Brueseke 30:54 

And is that the person that you want it to be? Right. And, you know, I think probably in a lot of relationships, there's a little bit of mental load, you know, imbalance there between the two different partners in terms of, like, how they manage the household responsibilities. And so, you know, taking, going through that list was just really helpful for me to, like, realize, like, A, all the different things that are actually happening that are just kind of, like, going on in the background. And some of them are me, but most of them, many of them are you. And then also gave me a chance to, like, reassess and decide, like, is that what I want it to be? Is that how I want to show up in the relationship? Do I not want to be the person that takes the kids to school every day? You know?  

Amber B 31:32 

And I will say, again, the first 16 years of our marriage was survival. And I really, like, did 97% of running the household, managing the kids, because you were there. You were there. You were, I mean, you would, I remember, specifically I remember when we were, we lived in Garth Grove and you were in residency and you would leave at, like, 5 a.m. And you would get home at, like, 1130 p.m. And, like, you would get, leave before the kids got up and you would go to sleep after the kids, you know, went to bed. And that, I mean, that was just the life of a resident. And so because of that, because you literally didn't have the space to do anything other than, like, the medical training, I did 97% of everything to run the household. And, you know, after, obviously we're post-training now, and you have a little bit more free time and a little bit more mental space and are able to do that, you know, to your credit, you have really intentionally picked up more of, like, been more of a partner, been more of a, hey, let me take some of that mental load. I don't do the laundry anymore. You do the laundry. You take the kids to school. You do a lot of, like, the calling for the appointments and things like that. And I think the whole point is not that I was, like, a martyr during that time, but it was like that was what we kind of decided what needed to happen in order to make it through that phase of life. And then be willing to re-establish those roles as things start to change and as, you know, new things.  

Taylor Brueseke 32:57 

At any time that you want to, right? You know, I mean, I think that's the whole idea is to be intentional about it, right? Right. I don't think you and I, I don't remember having a sit-down conversation and saying, like, well, I'm starting training tomorrow, so.  

Amber B 33:07 

So good luck.  

Taylor Brueseke 33:08 

You're going to pick up all this other stuff. But it was kind of implied and I guess understood, you know, and I think you went into the relationship with eyes open.  

Amber B 33:14 

Well, to be clear, sometimes people hear me say, like, we went to medical school and then they will say, did you go to medical school? And I will say, no, but yes. Because we, we made the decision to go to medical school together as a partnership and realizing what it was going to mean. Like, like I said, I was there before you took the MCAT and we went into it, not completely eyes open because I don't think anybody. Yeah. You never really know what you're getting into when it comes to medical training, but we went into it saying, this is what we are doing. We are doing this together. And I took my role and you took your role and, and, you know, as my business started, we've changed roles and we've like, you know, mixed those roles around. But I think the key is really being intentional about what you want it to look like and not just defaulting to the way that it has always been. 

Taylor Brueseke 34:03 

Yeah. It doesn't have to be the same today as it was yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. And different seasons call for different opportunities.  

Amber B 34:08 

That’s right. Okay. Number 12 is that your heart matters more than just checking the box. And what I mean by this, this was like really insightful for me because I'm such a checklist person. So when our therapist like says like, here's the three parts of a good apology, you know, it's like one, two and three, then my brain just goes, okay, cool. One, two and three, check!  

Taylor Brueseke 34:32 

I have apologized. 

Amber B 34:33 

I have apologized. Check that off. Totally. I love a gold star. And the realization was that. Where you come from matters more than the words you say. And that blew my brain because it was like, I thought, why she's one, two, and the three, and then check I've done it. And the realization was like, no, where I'm coming from matters way more than if I get the steps, right. If I'm really coming with an honest heart or I'm really coming from an apology, it doesn't really matter what the words that I say, it's going to come across in my energy. It's going to come across in, in the way that I, you just feel it. Right. And I think what I've realized is that humans are way better at feeling other people and reading them than I ever, ever thought they were. I though that if I just say the words. 

Taylor Brueseke 35:23 

That's one of my superpowers.  

Amber B 35:24 

It is one of your superpowers and it's not my superpower. And it's something that I love about you is your ability to be empathetic, to read other people and to really know what's being said without being said. But I am way more like superficial in that. Like if you tell me that you're okay, then you're okay. You tell me you're okay. Like how am I supposed to read anything else other than you just said you were okay. And so, I mean, that's important too. Cause you gotta, that's where the honesty piece comes in. It's like, if you really aren't okay, you need to tell me that you're not okay.  

Taylor Brueseke 35:54 

Yeah. Right. That's knowing your partner. Right. Exactly.  

Amber B 35:56 

But yes, that is definitely the way that I go through life. 

Taylor Brueseke 35:59 

That's awesome. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that's great. 

Amber B 36:01 

So where you come from matters more than how you say it or how you communicate it. It's like, I have to really check and say, check, like, where am I coming from? Am I really coming from? I really am open to hear, you know, sometimes I'll be like, yeah, I want to hear what you're saying, but I don't really want to hear you're saying. So it's like, am I really, when I'm saying that, am I really open to what he has to say to me?  

Taylor Brueseke 36:24 

Yeah. I think that goes back to the honesty thing from the beginning. Right. It's like, we know what the right words to say are. This is like, I know that I'm supposed to say, well, I want to hear more about that or. 

Amber B 36:36 

But if you don't really want to hear more about it.  

Taylor Brueseke 36:36 

You're going to get that from me, even if I don't say that. Yeah. 

Amber B 36:41 

Yeah. That's really valuable.  

Taylor Brueseke 36:42 

It's kind of sucks sometimes that people can't quite read your mind, but they can really get your emotion. 

Amber B 36:48 

And that's what Dr. Finlayson says a lot is that we as humans are really good at tracking our partners, especially your partners. Right. Intimately involved with you get, we can read each other. You can spend 20 years together. We can read each other. Even if you're not saying something, even me, even me, I can read you.  

Taylor Brueseke 37:08 

The negative end of being really good, supposedly of reading people is that sometimes you read things that aren't true. Yeah. Right. Like you perceive something. And then it's like the ability to perceive the other person's emotions. It's a sixth sense to some extent, but it's not, it's not always accurate. And so then you think, you know what the other person's thinking are doing, but you're just wrong.  

Amber B 37:28 

Yeah. Okay. Number 13, you don't own your partner's sexuality. We're going to talk about sex.  

Taylor Brueseke 37:35 

Sex and money. I mean what else do people fight about? 

Amber B 37:38 

I mean, I mean, I think this is a, this is a big one for us of really starting to own our own sexuality as something that is for us that we share with the other person, rather than I think the paradigm that both of us were kind of raised in is that like sexuality is for the other person and like belongs to the other person and being able to internalize that as like, no, my sexuality is for me. And as a gift, I share that with you and that's wonderful that I share that with you, but it's not yours. It's mine.  

Taylor Brueseke 38:05 

Yeah. And so I really don't have anything to say about what you wear or choose to wear and you know what you do or don't do.  

Amber B 38:11 

This has never been a problem. I don't know where he's getting these examples from. Yeah. Yeah. But that was revolutionary for me, especially, I don't know, maybe it wasn't as revolutionary for you, but being able to own my own sexuality and then give that as a gift to you, I think is such a beautiful paradigm.  

Taylor Brueseke 38:31 

Yeah. Well, and you know, the thought that comes with that too, is that like this, you know, I mean, I think for me, I grew up with more like just shame about being a sexual human and like the idea that sharing that was a gift, right? Like that it could be something positive, uh, is, you know, that, I mean, that's, that's been my work on that side of things. Um, and so, yeah, I think. 

Amber B 38:58 

You were raised more the paradigm, like sexuality is scary or like it’s like dangerous? 

Taylor Brueseke 39:02 

Dangerous. Like somebody, you might get somebody pregnant and you don't want to be, you know, a teenage father and, you know, you don't want to have these kids that you can't take care of.  

Amber B 39:11 

It's like a dangerous thing. Right. Right. Be scared of. 

Taylor Brueseke 39:14 

Right. And something you had to control, you know, and something you had to kind of like tie down or otherwise it would get the better of you or.  

Amber B 39:20 

Take over. 

Taylor Brueseke 39:21 

You become so luscious and like, you know, just, you know, whatever with everybody. But, um, yeah, that, that, that, that was, that was something that was valuable to learn or continue to learn and, you know, being able to bless somebody else's life or make somebody else's life better with it was kind of an eye opening idea.  

Amber B 39:39 

Yeah. Um, yeah. Okay. Number 14, give your partner the benefit of the doubt. And I think this is really just coming from when you said earlier that like everybody has a reason why they do something. Yeah. And so coming from the benefit of the doubt that it's like, the reason he's doing that is not necessarily the bad reason that I think he's doing it. He's not doing that to annoy me. He's not doing that to make my life miserable, but giving me the benefit of the doubt that there is a really good reason. That makes a lot of sense as to why you are doing something. 

Taylor Brueseke 40:13 

Yeah. That's good.  

Amber B 40:14 

Okay. Number 15. Don't assume your partner thinks the same way as you. In fact, they probably don't. And the example that we have that.  

Taylor Brueseke 40:25 

Suspension of the van on the freeway.  

Amber B 40:26 

Do you remember this?  

Taylor Brueseke 40:27 

I mean, I think I was driving to the airport and there was like some car in front of us that like was sinking really low to the ground. Like the, the bat, they must've had obviously in my mind that a lot of like weight that they were carrying in the bed of their van or whatever in the back of their van. And I was just looking at it and thinking to myself, Oh, I wonder what they're hauling in that van. Because the suspension is obviously weighted down. The like frame of the car is like cupping over the wheel of the back axle of the car. And did I say something?  

Amber B 40:57 

You made a comment about like, wow, that was really crazy. And I was like, what are you even talking about? And you're like, did you not see that? Did you not like, and I was like, Oh no, I mean, I can look back and like see it, but I don't. Okay. So that's low. And you went on this whole thing of like, that your brain had like taking you on this adventure with trying to figure out what was going on and trying to understand it. 

Taylor Brueseke 41:18 

What are they hauling? They must be hauling something interesting. There's dirt on the back of the car. I wonder if they're coming from a, you know, dirt log yard or something. 

Amber B 41:25 

It was just like a very clear example of like, we just think very differently in terms of everything. 

Taylor Brueseke 41:31 

How heavy is that load to make the suspension drop that low on a truck like that?  

Amber B 41:34 

You’re still thinking about it. His brain works. This is another wonderful thing about your brain that is different than my brain is his brain is always asking the question, how does it work? And it was really funny because your dad was here for Thanksgiving and he went out into the backyard. I don't forget who he's looking at, but he was just like, I was standing there like staring and looking and like kind of moving around and like moving his head. And I came in and he came in and I was like, what are you doing? He's like, Oh, I was trying to figure out how that thing works. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's where he gets it from. He gets it from his dad.  

Taylor Brueseke  42:07 

Come by Riley.  

Amber B 42:07 

Come by Riley. Like just trying to figure out how everything works.  

Taylor Brueseke 42:08 

If you know how it works, then if it breaks, you can fix it.  

Amber B 42:09 

I guess so. I never think that way though. I don't care. It just works. I don't know. It's just the water just comes out. That's it. I turn on the faucet and the water comes out. 

Taylor Brueseke 42:25 

Yeah. My job is, I mean, speaking of mental load, right? It's like, that's because that's my job is to like be able to fix the thing when it doesn't work. And so if I don't know how it works, then I don't know how to fix it. 

Amber B 42:34 

That’s right. It’s good. Okay. Number 16. If you need someone, you can't choose them. And the corollary to this is if divorce is not an option, you can't actively choose your partner. And this was a big aha for me because in, in our, the culture that we were raised in divorce is not really an option. You know, it's like you get married and we both grew up with parents who have been married 40 plus years. And we have seen that modeled for us. So like through thick and thin and this idea that like divorce is failing on some level. I think both of us kind of grew up with that idea. Like if you, if you get divorced and when you failed at marriage and what we have come to realize is that if you need somebody or you can't, can't get divorced, you can't, you know, not choose them, then you can't actively choose them. And we all want to be chosen. That's the most beautiful thing is when somebody who doesn't have to choose you chooses you and you choose to be with me, not because you have to, not because you need to, not because you wouldn't be complete without me, but because you as a whole human being want to be with me and choose to be with me. And that is way more powerful, way more beautiful than someone who needs me.  

Taylor Brueseke 43:50 

Yeah. Being needed is probably like just the opposite of, um, uh, arrow synergy is the word that comes to mind from like JFS like lingo, but like this idea that, um, I'm bringing something to you and you're bringing something to me and giving that to each other as a choice is where, uh, generative energy comes from, right? Like if, if I need you to take care of myself and, and, and, I'm trying to think of an example to use here. 

Amber B 44:20 

Well, I talk about this a lot in terms of like the goals and when you're, there's a different energy between I need to lose weight and I want to lose weight. Right. Right. Need is like constructive. It's like anxiety provoking, whereas like want is expansive. It's full of possibility. And it's the same thing as like, if I need you, if I need you to make me whole, if I need you and you can't leave me, you can't leave me. It's like that neediness energy is not attractive at all  

Taylor Brueseke 44:47 

On the slightest. Cause then it's a caretaking response response, right? Like if you need me to do these things, I don't really get a chance to, you know, decide whether I actually want to do that or not. I just have to take care of you. And that's not exciting in the slightest.  

Amber B 44:58 

Yeah. And so being able to actively choose your partner is, is such a gift and you can't do that from, if you need each other. And we've been in that relationship where it's like, it was a needy relationship and being able to mature and grow out of that and be able to actively choose each other. It brings more energy and life into the relationship. 

Taylor Brueseke 45:17 

Which is not to say that if like we got separated, that it wouldn't just be devastating for everything and everyone, but like waking up every day and deciding like today, I want to be in this relationship is where the power is.  

Amber B 45:30 

Yeah. And I mean, just share like a little bit of a personal story. I won't go like too deep into it. There was, I have been very confident in our relationship that you would never divorce me like ever, ever.  

Taylor Brueseke 45:44 

Well, how can anybody ever divorce you Amber?  

Amber B 45:46 

But that wasn't it. It was just like, I knew that you wouldn't divorce me. And there was a moment where that kind of shifted and it was, it was, I woke up to the possibility that it actually could happen. And it made me, it was like a jolt and an awakening for me to realize that, Hey, I can't take this for granted. I think that's what happened. If there's no, if divorce isn't an option, if you can't get out of something, if you can't say no to something, then like, there's no, there's no, um, what was I saying? Like I lost it. 

Taylor Brueseke 46:20 

There's no value. There's a take for granted. It's like,  

Amber B 46:22 

Oh yeah. Then you just take it for granted. You just take for granted that thing that you had. And so it was this waking up for me to realize, Oh my gosh, he doesn't have to say, he doesn't have to keep choosing me. He could choose differently. And, and do I want that? And so being able to come at that and realize I want to show up in a way that he wants me, not that he needs me or that he has to stay, but he wants to choose to say. 

Taylor Brueseke 46:46 

Yeah. And I think that tends to engender our best response to other people. Right? Like, and then I get to choose. If I don't need you in that relationship and you don't need me, then I get to choose who I want to be when I show up. And then you get to pick whether you want that or not. Right. And so then I can be kind of intentional about who I want to be instead of trying to be the person that you need me to be. Yeah.  

Amber B 47:04 

Yeah. All right. Number 17, no one else can meet your needs.  

Taylor Brueseke 47:07 

Oh, there you go. You got to decide for yourself who you're going to be. And then, you know, wake up one day and decide how you want to show up and then do that.  

Amber B 47:16 

Yeah. And I think it's really easy, especially in early relationships to feel like, well, this person completes me, right? Like.  

Taylor Brueseke 47:24 

That age old fairy tale.  

Amber B 47:26 

Yeah. And, and, you know, I, I mean, it even comes back to like the whole idea of wanting to do hobbies together. Right. It's like, I, I need you to do my hobby with me. Rather than like, this is really fun. I I'm going to do it. And it's, it's I'm going to do it on my own and I'm going to meet fill this cup. I'm going to go have my friends as well as have, you know, you as a friend. Right. But it's that realization that you are a whole and complete and individual person that has needs and your partner cannot be meeting all of those needs for you. You have to be able to fill your own cup. You have to be able to have friends and hobbies and, you know, experiences that is not just solely with your one partner. And I think, especially as like a newly married couple, you know, you get to that place where it's like, you never see any of your friends again, because all you want to do is spend all the time around like this one person that you're so in love with. And, and, and that's great, but there's so much more to like being an individual that is separate from your partner. And I think as you get more mature, you're able to cultivate that and you're able to grow into your own while being in relationship and in connection with somebody else. Right. That's the whole idea of differentiation is like, can I be connected to myself while also simultaneously be connected to you? And people tend to go one too far one way or two for the other way, where if you go too far one way, it's like, I'm so connected to myself. I'm not, I can't even be connected to you. Or I'm so connected to you that I've like lost myself in the process. And so the beautiful, like middle ground, the beautiful middle ground of that is, is differentiation. I can connect to myself and who I am as an individual, and I can stand alone as an individual. And I can also simultaneously be in connection with you,  

Taylor Brueseke 49:05 

Which allows you to make room for me and, um, you know, my positions and perspectives and things that are important to me that, and, and they don't threaten you, I think is really the, yeah. 

Amber B 49:14 

That's good. Yeah. Okay. Number 18 fall in love with who your partner is rather than who you want them to be. And I think this, I mean, we've kind of said this in a multitude of ways, but it is the realization that you can't change your partner. And there are great things about that, that, you know, an attribute that your partner has, there's great things about that attribute and there's a dark side to that attribute. And can you love the great part about that attribute no matter what it is. Right. And instead of trying to change them, can you fall in love with that quirk about them or that thing that maybe annoys the crap out of you? I mean, you know, you gave a good example of the cabinet, you know, when you, when I leave the cabinet door open, can you remind yourself how much you love that I'm able to like get 15,000 things done in a day and, you know, fall in love with that part of it. 

Taylor Brueseke 50:03 

Yeah. And then to some extent it's like, uh, it becomes a bit of a choice, right? Like it's like, you know, when you're young and fresh and you don't see the deeper, you know, meaning behind the different things, or you don't understand that opening the door, leaving the door open is also the same part of you that allows you to do these other things. You just don't see it. Right. But as you get older or more time with a patient in person, I guess, you know, like the, you just start to be able to look deeper to understand that stuff more. And then it really becomes a bit of more of a choice, right? Like, is this the kind of thing that is either a that important to me or b, um, you know, I can find a way to be appreciative of. 

Amber B 50:41 

And to be clear, you have asked me to close the thing and I do it most of the time. Can we tell them,   

Taylor Brueseke 50:46 

It was just open last night.  

Amber B 50:47 

Can we tell them that? Oh gosh, But like my, I, when you ask me. 

Taylor Brueseke 50:52 

And I happen to be like pointing at the bathroom.  

Amber B 50:55 

When you ask me to do those things, like I try, I try very hard to accommodate them. Just to be. 

Taylor Brueseke 50:59 

Turns out actually Amber actually really does want to do all the things that I ask her to do.  

Amber B 51:03 

I really do.  

Taylor Brueseke 51:04 

She really does. And I love to give her gold stars for it.  

Amber B 51:06 

Oh, I love all the gold stars.  

Taylor Brueseke 51:07 

Not that it's my job to judge her, but. 

Amber B 51:11 

Okay. Uh, number 19, we're almost there. Trying to make the other person happy is a form of control. 

Taylor Brueseke 51:16 

Oh yeah. That's really good. I mean, this goes back a little bit of what we were talking about earlier with honesty comes back to that, I guess. But, um, you know, um, the idea that I can somehow make you happy or make you unhappy is just, you know, a falsehood at least. So I think of it today, you know, like I used to kind of have this idea that if I did everything right, if I was a good enough husband, if I came home from work soon enough, if I made enough money, if I did what, you know, if I, if I, if I, you know, like, then you would be happy. And, um, you know, realistically, I can't make you happy at all. 

Amber B 51:49 

Right. I could choose to be unhappy in any circumstance and I can choose to be happy in any circumstance.  

Taylor Brueseke 51:53 

It reminds me of, um, there was this, when we lived in Garden Grove, there was a, uh, a woman in our apartment complex who was like, Oh, I think when I moved back to wherever it was, Pennsylvania, you know, then I'll be happy. 

Amber B 52:04 

I hate California. Yeah.  

Taylor Brueseke 52:07 

And it's like so dry here. And like, you know, the people are so whatever, you know, but if I moved to Pennsylvania, right, life will be better. Life will be better. And then, and then she moved to Pennsylvania. And then she hated the, hated the winters. It was like too cold, so cold here. And you know, Utah and then it was like, it was like, Oh, the air is so bad. 

Amber B 52:27 

I mean, it was like every place I was like, you're never going to be happy. Right. It's like, cause it's not the place. It's not the place that makes you happy. It's like your decision to be happy.  

Taylor Brueseke 52:38 

And it's not your partner. Right. Like, I mean, obviously if your partner is challenging to work with harder for you, but in the end you decide whether you're going to be happy. You decide whether you're going to fill your life with the things that bring you joy or not, you know? And of course there's seasons where you don't have as many choices as others, but in the end, the ultimate responsibility is yours. 

Amber B 52:56 

Yeah. Well, and I think that was an eye opening thing of because I think there's a lot of people out there that you're like whole goal is to like make other people happy and realizing that by trying to do that, you're trying to control that person's emotional response, which you don’t have control of it. 

Taylor Brueseke 53:07 

You think that if I can make you happy, then you will make me happy. Yes. And that's where my happiness will then come from is from you who will have, you know, been so elated that I made you happy, make me happy right? 

Amber B 53:20 

Yeah. And realizing and really taking that into yourself and realizing that nobody can make me happy. Only I can make myself happy and I can't make anybody else happy. They have to make themselves happy.  

Taylor Brueseke 53:30 

I don't need to spend my energy trying to do that. 

Amber B 53:32 

Yeah. That’s good. Okay. Number 20 relationships are like muscles. 

Taylor Brueseke 53:37 

Oh, that's a good idea.  

Amber B 53:37 

They take work to grow and how much energy are you currently spending on your relationship? And I think this has been something we've spent a lot of energy, money, time, tears, tears, effort in the last, you know, two to three years on our relationship. And it's been really beautiful because it has grown. I mean, I think, I think the first 16 years we kind of said it has been, was like a stagnation. It was like a, it was, it was fine. It was, it was just getting through it. 

Taylor Brueseke 54:04 

You got us where we needed to go. 

Amber B 54:06 

But, but I feel like our relationship was, was fine. It was fine. And over the last couple of years, we've kind of, we've dug in and we've had days that were not fine. We've had days that were really, really hard and really, really awful. But out of that, it has become a relationship that is much deeper and better and more collaborative. And I'm more in love with you today than I was for sure. 

Taylor Brueseke 54:32 

Same. 

Amber B 54:33 

20 years ago. But even three years ago, I'm more in love with you today, because I know you better. I know who you are. And I love the, you I don't love the idea of you or who I want you to be. I love who you are and I love how you make me better. And I think when I realized that, that one of the real values of the relationship is letting the other person have influence on you, that this was hard for me, right? All you want is to have influence on me, but all I want is to like be alone and like do my own thing. But when I realized that like allowing you to have influence on me makes me a better person, makes me a better, a better human, allows me to grow more, allows me to like have a better life. It just was such a beautiful realization of doing it on your own. Isn't as great as I kind of had this idealistic idea that it, that it would be. And I just, I love you so much more today than I did, you know, 20 years ago.  

Taylor Brueseke 55:24 

Thanks. Yeah. Same. I mean, you're right. For me, it comes down to, it becomes about choice, right? Like you get to choose to love that person after you get to know them better. Yeah. And, and you don't get to know them. If you don't have at least a few conflicts along the way, because they're just trying to pretend to be something else. And then that's when the real work can happen. And that's when you can really devote that energy to the relationship is when you start to think about, you know, how do I know this person? How much more could I know this person and, you know, why do they do those things? And now I can, then you start to see like, you know, what they really bring to you. And the real beauty then is that, that we are the, that you are, well, let me say it this way. One of the things that I just really appreciate about you is your devotion to the relationship. Right. And that you're willing, that you come in willing to take today as an opportunity to do something new or different, right. That you get to commit to saying like, Hey, we're going to make the relationship better today. You know, I, it's a beautiful thing to be loved by somebody that honestly wants to be better and honestly wants to make the relationship work. You know, I've talked to a couple of friends of, you know, over the months and years about relationships they've been in and, you know, it seems to sometimes come back to this question. Well, what do you really want? You know, do you really want to be with that person? Do you really want to,  

Amber B 56:53 

Do you really want to do the hard work to, to grow yourself? Right. I think that's the, that's the thing is like cause growth is painful and growth is hard. Right. And, and at the end of the day, it's like, are you willing to walk through that fire to build the relationship? Are you willing to do the hard things to grow closer to this person, to be more intimate with this person that you've chosen and then that you've got to choose again and then choose again and then choose again. Because just because you chose that person one day doesn't mean you have to choose them for forever. And I think that's the whole idea of like, I think that was the idea that I came into marriage was like, okay, I chose you on the day that we got married. So then, so then like, that was it. Like I just chose you and like, there's no more choosing. Yeah. And it is way better to realize that any day you could leave the relationship. I could leave the relationship because, but we're not, we're choosing, we're choosing every single day to stay in the relationship. And that's an active choice every single day. And I think that that, that really comes from a place of like, I want to do this with you. I want to walk with you.  

Taylor Brueseke 57:52 

Yeah. And it's because it comes from one of the reasons is because it comes from a place of strength, right? Like I, here I am standing here on my own as my own human being saying, I want to be with this other person. Yeah. Right.  

Amber B 58:02 

And that's beautiful. Yeah. Okay. Well, those are 20 lessons in 20 years of marriage. Any closing thoughts?  

Taylor Brueseke 58:10 

I'm just so glad to be on your podcast for the 350th episode. It's been a pleasure to do the last 20 years with you and look forward to the next 20.  

Amber B 58:21 

Yeah, me too. I love you.  

Taylor Brueseke 58:22 

I love you too.  

Amber B 58:24 

All right. Well team, fam, peeps, that wraps up this episode of Biceps After Babies Radio. I'm Amber. Now go out and be strong because remember my friend, you can do anything. 

Outro

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